what if XLR-V > m6 @ nordschleife?

[lemming]

there are some serious reports coming out that with the final baseline numbers being set, the STS-V and the XLR-V will have not just the 440hp but more like 470hp with almost the same torque.......makes one wonder how fast each car will be now on the nurburgring.

is it possible that the XLR-V (really a c6 with some ballast) could be quicker than the much vaunted M6? remember, the c5 z06 is 7:56-7:58 and the c6 z51 is supposed to be very close to that --the XLR-V could very well be a sub-8min car.

i hope this is true. because it will mean that torque is as important as peak HP and it will be proven on the same track.

[FC]

Originally Posted by lemming

there are some serious reports coming out that with the final baseline numbers being set, the STS-V and the XLR-V will have not just the 440hp but more like 470hp with almost the same torque.......makes one wonder how fast each car will be now on the nurburgring.

is it possible that the XLR-V (really a c6 with some ballast) could be quicker than the much vaunted M6? remember, the c5 z06 is 7:56-7:58 and the c6 z51 is supposed to be very close to that --the XLR-V could very well be a sub-8min car.

i hope this is true. because it will mean that torque is as important as peak HP and it will be proven on the same track.

I honestly doubt GM will ship Caddys over the pond for testing at the 'ring. I hope they do, but I'm not holding my breath.

Still, there is no reason to doubt that the XLR-V will at the very least come close to the the M6 if they were to test it.

But honestly, let's be fair. A vanilla XLR costs close to 80K. An XLR-V is bound to push 90K. At that price, styling aside, most people will go with the M6 for the obvious reasons given the small price difference for the segment in question.

[Roadstergal]

Originally Posted by lemming

because it will mean that torque is as important as peak HP and it will be proven on the same track.

And suspension, tires, and brakes are not a factor.

:P

[Jason C]

Originally Posted by Fernando

I honestly doubt GM will ship Caddys over the pond for testing at the 'ring. I hope they do, but I'm not holding my breath.

What are you talkin' about? GM has publicized the useage of the Nordschleife for a lot of their cars (amusingly enough, the latest is their Trailblazer SS, polishing a turd if I ever saw it). This kind of testing by GM dates back to at latest the basic CTS.

[Jason C]

Originally Posted by Roadstergal

And suspension, tires, and brakes are not a factor.

:P

But weight is. A very big factor indeed. Is the Caddy the fat pig in this instance, or the Bimmer?

^^Imagine that being a serious question 5 years ago.

[FC]

Originally Posted by Captain Morgan

What are you talkin' about? GM has publicized the useage of the Nordschleife for a lot of their cars (amusingly enough, the latest is their Trailblazer SS, polishing a turd if I ever saw it). This kind of testing by GM dates back to at latest the basic CTS.

Impressive. I new the MEGA CTS was being tested there. I didn't know it had become policy. That is great.

[Jason C]

Originally Posted by Fernando

Impressive. I new the MEGA CTS was being tested there. I didn't know it had become policy. That is great.

I think the GM cars that have been somewhat to extensively tuned there includes AFAIK:

All Cadillacs CTS and later (excluding variants of escalade). V-models get a whole lot of 'Ring time.
Cobalt SS, Trailblazer SS. It may become policy to wring out all SS cars there.
Corvette C5 Z06 and up. C6 received a lot of 'Ring time, though lemming would never believe it. C6 Z06 practically is a Nordschleife/Milford special.

A bunch more makes tests there of course, the usual Porsche/BMW models that seem to spontaneously generate themselves over there, etc etc.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by Captain Morgan

I think the GM cars that have been somewhat to extensively tuned there includes AFAIK:

All Cadillacs CTS and later (excluding variants of escalade). V-models get a whole lot of 'Ring time.
Cobalt SS, Trailblazer SS. It may become policy to wring out all SS cars there.
Corvette C5 Z06 and up. C6 received a lot of 'Ring time, though lemming would never believe it. C6 Z06 practically is a Nordschleife/Milford special.

A bunch more makes tests there of course, the usual Porsche/BMW models that seem to spontaneously generate themselves over there, etc etc.

my opinion: the BMW v10 is a technological gem, but an exercise and more about the display more so than execution. you could have very well gotten this level of power from a v8 or v12, but it HAD to be a v10.

my hypothesis: the XLR-V is based on the c6 and the c6 z51 is within seconds of the c5 z06 on the nurburgring. the XLR is about 3500 pounds (mainly the retractable hardtop) but has an automatic but an amazingly flat power curve --think AMG. cubic inches plus forced induction plus DOHCs driving the pistons and valves.

furthermore: the XLR-V will have multipiston brakes and tires as good as those found on the M6.

to the question: will it be faster than the vaunted M6 on this famed german road course? if it indeed is, what does that say about which car is the driver's car and which one isn't? and what does that say about keeping things simple, as opposed to complex? execution is what matters, no? ergo, if the XLR-V is faster, it proves two points: power doesn't need to be complex from an engine and second, lighter weight is probably better than SMG or any rubber compound BMW will put on the M6 to keep it driveable.

[Rob]

Lots of "ifs" in there. Plus, the M10 is normally aspirated. Does that matter? What about heat soak from the caddy?

Seriously, the fact that Cadillac is competing in this contest at all is great all by itself.

mbr, GM liked the results of the testing the CTS-V on the 'ring so much, they are building a mini ring in Michigan for testing. Come to think of it, it's probably done now. Not as long, but supposedly contains all of the great bits for testing. I would be VERY surprised if all of the V models didn't get 'ring testing, even if it's just for marketing purposes.

[JST]

Originally Posted by rwg

Lots of "ifs" in there. Plus, the M10 is normally aspirated. Does that matter? What about heat soak from the caddy?

Seriously, the fact that Cadillac is competing in this contest at all is great all by itself.

mbr, GM liked the results of the testing the CTS-V on the 'ring so much, they are building a mini ring in Michigan for testing. Come to think of it, it's probably done now. Not as long, but supposedly contains all of the great bits for testing. I would be VERY surprised if all of the V models didn't get 'ring testing, even if it's just for marketing purposes.

The articles on the so-called "Lutzring" at the GM Proving Ground in Milford, Michigan, mentioned that GM would be doing much of the heavy development work in Milford, but that occasional visits to the real 'ring in Germany would continue, possibly annually.