carmudgeons.com  

Go Back   carmudgeons.com > Automotive Forums > Car Talk > Perseverators Anonymous

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2023, 10:09 PM   #1
JST
195
 
JST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 24,593
Replacing the Tesla?

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's time to at least start thinking about a replacement for the Model 3. It turns five this year, and the incident that kept it locked to my house for a week has shaken my faith in it. And that's without mentioning the Musk fuckery.

So, here's the problem.

We thought about a Mini Cooper, since my wife likes those, but that would make the BMW the family trip car and it's just not *quite* big enough for us and our luggage. The Tesla has more room--not a lot, but enough for one extra carry-on, which makes all the difference.

If you restrict your search to things that are bigger than the BMW, but still small enough to not be a nightmare to park downtown, you end up with a very limited range of vehicles.

In fact, you end up with, near as I can tell, two.

Audi A4 Allroad

This is a very pleasant car. It drives mostly like an A4; with a 261 hp version of the VW corporate 2 liter and a 7 speed DSG, it's responsive enough if not particularly fast. When optioned correctly, the interior feels quite nice in a German luxury sedan way. It has decent space inside, an actual spare tire, and things like optional rear window shades. In short, it's a really well designed all-rounder.

There are a few negatives, though. The infotainment system is a bit puzzling and restrictive (no moving the map while driving!). The lifted suspension needlessly makes the ride and handling worse than the sedan. But most importantly, it burns gas. I don't have an environmental objection to this, since all of my other cars do, too--but given my wife's commute, that's a non-trivial expense that we don't have in the Tesla, and she's gotten used to not going to gas stations.


Mustang Mach E GT

The Mach E is a really nice car. Ford clearly benchmarked Tesla, and it does most everything the Tesla does with a few nice old-school touches, like an actual key fob, a physical glove door latch, and real mirror controls. It's fast and feels better at higher speeds than the Tesla does. The giant screen works well, and everything is generally pretty intuitive.

At the same time, there are a few flies in the ointment, too. The interior materials are simply not as nice as the Audi, despite costing a good bit more. Unlike the Tesla, the Mach E has a bit of torque steer when you get on the accelerator. The range isn't quite as good as the Tesla, either, at least on paper, though real world they're likely quite similar. The suspension is stiff but it's a crossover so the handling is mediocre. And the crossover form factor means the car feels needlessly big, with little payoff in terms of cargo or people space.

Mostly, though, the thing that gives me pause about the Mach E is the charging network. Yes, it will have access to the Superchargers sometime next year (assuming Tesla meets the deadline for developing an adapter LOL). In the meantime, I'd be stuck with a charging network that is so thin and unreliable that a roadtrip in a Mach E literally made Jim Farley decide to do a deal with Tesla. If the CEO of Ford finds traveling in a Mach E frustrating, how am I going to feel about it?

There are other cars I considered and mostly ruled out for various reasons, like the A5 Sportback (no rear headroom), the i4 (too ugly, according to my wife, plus the range is too short), the 440i Gran Coupe (see i4), the Rivian (too big, too expensive), the Lucid (ditto), a used Panamera (too expensive, profoundly awful gas mileage), and probably some others I'm not thinking of.

I don't know. It's pretty hard to get excited about spending 50-60K on either of the cars above. Nothing about either really moves me, and neither really offers many advantages over the Tesla.



NB I have ruled out all gasoline powered crossovers because I just haven't been impressed with any of the ones I've driven; they've all been pretty bleh to drive, don't offer much in the way of cargo space beyond what I can find in the Audi wagon, and get shit for gas mileage. By far the worst was the Cadillac XT4, which rides like a Conestoga but has luggage room smaller than most saddlebags.
JST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2023, 10:44 PM   #2
SARAFIL
I like BMWs
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: X5 M50 / M550
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 5,782
Is the cargo space comment ruling out other mid-sized sedans (5 series, E class, A6,…)? Also is the budget in the 50-60k range based on options you listed or open to spending more?
__________________
2020 X5 M50i -- Alpine White / Coffee Leather
2020 M550i -- Carbon Black / Beige Leather
SARAFIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2023, 11:04 PM   #3
JST
195
 
JST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 24,593
I don’t particularly want to spend more, but there’s no hard cap. Sedans like the 5er and the A6 are a possibility but again the bigger the car, the more it bumps up against my other constraints about parking and whatnot.
JST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2023, 11:22 PM   #4
SARAFIL
I like BMWs
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: X5 M50 / M550
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 5,782
Replacing the Tesla?

Allroad probably checks alot of your boxes. Another wildcard would be a V60 T8 aka Recharge (the non Cross Country model - very rare since they are special order only)

Know you said you aren’t pleased with SUVs, curious what you have/haven’t driven in that class? SQ5, X3 M40, GLC43?
__________________
2020 X5 M50i -- Alpine White / Coffee Leather
2020 M550i -- Carbon Black / Beige Leather
SARAFIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 07:45 AM   #5
ZBB
Relic
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: A very fast golf cart
Location: The Valley of the Sun
Posts: 12,821
Its really too bad that non-Tesla charging is such a mess.

I drove a Mach E about 2 years ago -- just a standard test loop. It is a good product, but I felt it would be tough going from a Tesla to it.

Have you tested the Kia EV6 or Hyundai Ionic 5? They are surprisingly roomy and less of a crossover. What about the Ionic 6?

Both still have the CCS charging issues, but have you thought about doing a test run for the typical road trips you'd drive? Your 3 would need a hardware upgrade to use the adapter (I did the upgrade on mine -- hardware was ~$200 and I did it DIY, and we already have the CCS adapter for the Y). But you could rent a Polestar or other CCS car from Hertz for 1-2 days and give it a shot...
__________________
ZBB
ZBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 08:00 AM   #6
wdc330i
dogged
 
wdc330i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '22 M440 xDrive GC
Posts: 13,246
Allroad would be my choice from the group.

It’s really a shame that BMW pulled the plug (pun alert) on the X3 PHEV, because I’ll bet it handles better than the Allroad.

Kia Stinger is another outlier. It is kind of my 4 GC—four doors with a hatch—but may have more headroom?

And re: the headroom in my GC: My 6’2 son’s tall friends ride in the back (at least for short distances) with no issue.

If you could stand going to X5 size, the PHEV is a great all-around SUV. Although, admittedly, I prefer the X3 size when alone, but the X5 size is better at family trips/highway duty.
wdc330i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 08:16 AM   #7
Josh (PA)
Hello.
 
Josh (PA)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Carmudgeonly Ride: '09 X3, '11 328xiT, '11 135i C, '17 c2, '19 X5
Location: Downingtown, PA
Posts: 5,516
how much bigger is the g80 m3 vs yours (could you get that extra suitcase in the trunk)? If so, maybe swap the F30 for a new manual M3 and the Tesla for the Mini? When you say Mini Cooper are you thinking the 2 door our clubman? Just wondering how much extra room you'd be able to get with the "long wheelbase" mini.

Assuming the g80 doesn't work, I agree with FIL, check out the X3/Q5 stuff and if they don't move the needle then buy the allroad.
__________________
Josh (PA) -
'19 X5
'17 991.2 C2 Cab
'11 135i Convertible
'11 328xiT
'09 X3
Josh (PA) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 08:20 AM   #8
dan
redefined
 
dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 14,884
jpgurl has the Mustang since January (at least)...maybe reach out to her if she doesn't reply here?

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpo...9&postcount=36
__________________
"There's a freedom you begin to feel the closer you get to Austin, Texas."
-Willie
dan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 08:34 AM   #9
wdc330i
dogged
 
wdc330i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '22 M440 xDrive GC
Posts: 13,246
Another thought: Roof box for the M3?
wdc330i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 09:05 AM   #10
JST
195
 
JST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 24,593
Lol I thought about the roof box but since I have the CF roof, the mounts for the roof rails aren’t there. I’ve seen people say you can drill the roof and install them but…yikes.

Stinger GT is a good call but they’re EOL; I suspect they’d be hard to find.

I haven’t liked the Q5s I’ve driven. Maybe the S would be different? But they all just feel like even less interesting versions of the A4.

I should try an X3, I guess. I’m opposed to them on philosophical grounds but I suppose they’re worth a look.

The EV6 is really quite cool but the charging network thing I think would really bum me out. At least the Mustang has the prospect of access to Superchargers.

I’ll have to check TDs M3 when it comes in, but I suspect it’s not that much bigger than the F80.
JST is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing the VW? JST Perseverators Anonymous 109 06-10-2019 07:21 PM
Replacing the Civic blee Perseverators Anonymous 35 06-02-2014 01:19 PM
Replacing MCS for something more practical FC Perseverators Anonymous 106 03-14-2014 05:28 PM
Replacing O2 Sensor on JGC FC Technical Superiority 9 07-27-2010 02:15 PM
Replacing battery IndyMike Technical Superiority 11 05-12-2008 08:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Forums © 2003-2008, 'Mudgeon Enterprises - Site hosting by AYN & Associates, LLC