2021 Bronco

[robg]

Originally Posted by FC

The smaller cargo space is a killer. Also, not mentioned, the windows start much lower on the LR4. Starting with the windshield, the LR4 has a lot more glass, which makes it roomier and more comfortable for shorter people.

The LR3/4 was a very successful design. Think about the fact that it was designed around the turn of the millennium (LR3 released in 2005), and that at least the US still could not stock enough of them in its last years of production.

It is expensive to run (weight, fuel, maintenance, accessories, parts), but besides obviously being super capable it's surprisingly comfortable, roomy (for its footprint), and was a sneaky very good value as it was priced with mid-size European SUV's with V6's at the time. Lucky for us I can do (so far) all of the maintenance and we don't put a lot of miles. But we knew that would be the case, otherwise we would not have bought it. You can't go from a 4Runner to an LR4 and expect the same ownership, yet some do.

It's funny to see the LR forum change where you now have 2nd or 3rd owners buying them for $10-20k and a lot of miles and limited service history and being surprised about costs to operate and repair. The newest V8's (like mine) are 7 years old.

Yeah its still a very pleasing and unique design. Pretty cool how roomy it is for being relatively short as well. I think the dynamic you're seeing on the forums w/ 2nd and 3rd owners is probably the same with any european car. Have you driven one of the newer ones with the S/C v6? To me that didn't sound like an improvement since they were a bit slower and not much better on fuel economy. I"ve driven the new Discovery with that engine and it had an annoying throttle lag.

[FC]

Originally Posted by robg

Yeah its still a very pleasing and unique design. Pretty cool how roomy it is for being relatively short as well. I think the dynamic you're seeing on the forums w/ 2nd and 3rd owners is probably the same with any european car. Have you driven one of the newer ones with the S/C v6? To me that didn't sound like an improvement since they were a bit slower and not much better on fuel economy. I"ve driven the new Discovery with that engine and it had an annoying throttle lag.

I've not personally driven one, but the universal feedback is that when you are on it (thanks in part to the 8-speed transmission) it's not really much slower. But they all agree it's not as smooth, responsive, or torquey, particularly at low speeds. The execution is lame too. They did not fix any issues on the V8. They just plugged to cylinders and added complexity. The late V8's are highly sought after, particularly 2013's because they had added interior and cosmetic options and improvements on engine reliability.

Someone's comment on this just today

[clyde]

Originally Posted by equ

Your move, JST.

Perhaps he's stuck in his creeper gear somewheres...

[lemming]

This makes it fun.

https://carbuzz.com/news/ford-execs-...-jeep-wrangler

[JST]

Originally Posted by clyde

Perhaps he's stuck in his creeper gear somewheres...

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=158725

Bronco is not even out yet!

Not going to lie--the 2 door with a stick is an appealing product, esp after all this time I've spent looking at G-wagens.

[robg]

Originally Posted by FC

I've not personally driven one, but the universal feedback is that when you are on it (thanks in part to the 8-speed transmission) it's not really much slower. But they all agree it's not as smooth, responsive, or torquey, particularly at low speeds. The execution is lame too. They did not fix any issues on the V8. They just plugged to cylinders and added complexity. The late V8's are highly sought after, particularly 2013's because they had added interior and cosmetic options and improvements on engine reliability.

Someone's comment on this just today

Apparently, they didn't just plug 2 cylinders to create the v6, but the design still is heavier than it would otherwise need to be. Anyway, they've now ditched the v6 in favor of their new turbo inline 6. We have that engine in my wife's car and its so much better in terms of smoothness, responsiveness, fuel economy and power compared to the v6. Not gonna lie though- still no substitute for a nice NA v8!
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...ers-redundant/

[FC]

Originally Posted by robg

Apparently, they didn't just plug 2 cylinders to create the v6, but the design still is heavier than it would otherwise need to be. Anyway, they've now ditched the v6 in favor of their new turbo inline 6. We have that engine in my wife's car and its so much better in terms of smoothness, responsiveness, fuel economy and power compared to the v6. Not gonna lie though- still no substitute for a nice NA v8!
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...ers-redundant/

Sure, they didn't exactly plug them, but in effect they did. They did redesign the block for 6 cylinders, but they left the outer envelope exactly the same to minimize overall engine bay design. Efficient in terms of design effort and development, but also bulky and heavy and fixed none of the issues that were well known.

But yeah, no doubt that I-6 is great! I've never owned a V configuration engine except for V8's. Only I-6 or H-6.

[JST]

The teases are getting tiring, but the small slices of the truck seen here look the business:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...ficial-photos/

[robg]

Originally Posted by FC

I've not personally driven one, but the universal feedback is that when you are on it (thanks in part to the 8-speed transmission) it's not really much slower. But they all agree it's not as smooth, responsive, or torquey, particularly at low speeds. The execution is lame too. They did not fix any issues on the V8. They just plugged to cylinders and added complexity. The late V8's are highly sought after, particularly 2013's because they had added interior and cosmetic options and improvements on engine reliability.

Someone's comment on this just today

It also occurred to me that another advantage of the V8 LR4 is that it's paired with the ZF 6 speed. That was such a good transmission - so much smoother than the 8 speed. After driving manuals for many years, my first foray back into automatics was with an e92 that had the ZF6 in it. I remember thinking "wow automatics really are pretty good these days". After that I've had a series of ZF8 speed equpped cars and have not been impressed. Yeah it can achieve near dual clutch shift speeds in some applications, but for most cars most of the time it just ends up making daily driving a more jerky experience. And honestly, in my e92 I didn't notice any delay when using the paddles to shift.

[FC]

Originally Posted by robg

It also occurred to me that another advantage of the V8 LR4 is that it's paired with the ZF 6 speed. That was such a good transmission - so much smoother than the 8 speed. After driving manuals for many years, my first foray back into automatics was with an e92 that had the ZF6 in it. I remember thinking "wow automatics really are pretty good these days". After that I've had a series of ZF8 speed equpped cars and have not been impressed. Yeah it can achieve near dual clutch shift speeds in some applications, but for most cars most of the time it just ends up making daily driving a more jerky experience.

I continue (almost 7 years later) to be totally impressed with the LR4. We drove it packed with two kids, dog, cargo, Thule box, and 4 bikes and it was smooth as silk on the highway. That air suspension is great and made much better with the tires I got (far better than the OEM set). It spends most of its time at under 2krpm, gets to maybe 2.5krpm in the highway and it never feels taxed. In passing, it just drops one gear and the job is done smoothly. If you need to punch it, it is pretty quick for how heavy it is. There really is nothing out there I would consider replacing it with. Ours is probably worth a surprising amount to the right buyer (~$25k? - here's a comp).

If a GLS cost half as much and my wife were willing to got to the back garage to get it to use it, maybe. But since neither will happen, then no.