Now my battery is dead in the M3

[FC]

The Elise is not gorgeous, but I would never say it looks bad. I think that in flashy color it looks cool and very exotic, and it's a tremendous attention-grabber. But surely, if I ever own one that I intend to drive on the street for any significant portion of time, it would make me sick to have a flashy color. It's just too much. In black it is a lot more livable. Not so over the top.

The odds of me getting one are minimal. There is always a chance that MANY MANY years from now I could pick up a used one for dedicated track/autox use, but that's it.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by JST

OK, so we got to try the WRX today. If they don't find the GTI, that's probably what we'll get.

Here's some brief thoughts:

Postives:
-Nice, intuititive clutch takeup
-Good shift feel, good steering feel
-Tossable, and the AWD eliminates torque steer
-Good seats
-Plenty of power up high
-Unbeatable utility--AWD and a big hatchback/wagon body style mean that it's a mini SUV, but one that goes fast and handles sharply
-Nice, no nonsense gauge and control layout. Everything falls readily to hand, and the central mounted tach is a good touch. At the same time, it doesn't completely do away with the analog speedo (like the RX-8).

Negatives:
-Interior materials feel low-cost econobox, but they're not as bad as I thought they'd be
-Turbo lag--the engine is nowhere near as tractable as the VW 1.8, but it has a bunch more power on the top end in exchange
-Weird options. The sedan has heated seats and a sunroof available, but inexplicably the wagon does not. And to get anything but the stupid looking 16" OEM wheels you need to spend $$$.
-Intercooler scoop looks like a snout and is a distraction in the driver's field of view


The bottom line? The WRX is far from perfect, and there are a lot of little touches that the VW has that the Subaru doesn't. But the WRX is just as fun to drive as the Mini (IMHO) and offers a whole lot more utility and speed. For c. 25K, it seems like the obvious choice.

I like WR blue.

not sure about your neck of the woods, but a WRX should go out the door for invoice plus $300-500 around new england. that is more like $22,900 than $25,000.

that's a lot of fun money, is why i bring up the cost difference.

but, yeah, i never really felt as though lag is an issue with the 1.8T, but it kinda is with the WRX.

i think they oughta just turbocharge the mini.........if it was executed with a twinscroll unit, it would negate the lag but add a lot of torque.

just a thought.

[JST]

Originally Posted by pDz

not sure about your neck of the woods, but a WRX should go out the door for invoice plus $300-500 around new england. that is more like $22,900 than $25,000.

that's a lot of fun money, is why i bring up the cost difference.

Good point.


Any recommendations for decent WRX boards? How hard is it to install XM?

[dredmo]

Man, maybe I am a big weirdo, but I like the new 5 and 7 quite a bit, and I love the Lotus in question.

My wife even likes it, and it is rare that we agree on a car no matter what the argument.

I say the lotus is awesome IMHO.

It isn't a P-car, or an Aston Martin, but very nice, especially for the price.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by pDz

i mean, good lord, if you're going to pony up 25k for a mini, you might as well spend 3k more on a stripper of a 325 to get your "balance", slightly more power, and RWD.

pDz, no insult intended, but that comment alone demonstrates that you don't understand the Mini and that you haven't spent near enough time in one, or at least that you haven't spent time on the right roads.

As for the "isolated" comments from the recent test drivers, I can only disagree - especially when you start comparing it to the e46. The clutch is good, the steering is quicker and better weighted (imo) and you can feel most of the road. It could be a little stiffer, but they started putting softer shocks in or something b/c their customers were complaining about the stiff ride. :roll: What did they think they were buying, anyway?

Yes, I admit I am biased. I think they are a ton of fun.

[TD]

Originally Posted by rwg

pDz, no insult intended, but that comment alone demonstrates that you don't understand the Mini and that you haven't spent near enough time in one, or at least that you haven't spent time on the right roads.

As for the "isolated" comments from the recent test drivers, I can only disagree - especially when you start comparing it to the e46. The clutch is good, the steering is quicker and better weighted (imo) and you can feel most of the road. It could be a little stiffer, but they started putting softer shocks in or something b/c their customers were complaining about the stiff ride. :roll: What did they think they were buying, anyway?

Yes, I admit I am biased. I think they are a ton of fun.

I forgot to mention that I though the steering, shifter and clutch felt excellent.

But I still argue it was too isolated. Perhaps it's been a while since I've been in an E46, but, compared to my M3, the MINI is very damped, refined and isolated. I want rude and crude. A true go-kart that'll seat 4 in a pinch.

It was not that.

And it was just too slow.

But, if it wasn't a suggested replacement for my M3, I think I could really like it. As it is, it's just not fun enough.

[TD]

Originally Posted by dredmo

Man, maybe I am a big weirdo...

Yup.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by TD

But I still argue it was too isolated. Perhaps it's been a while since I've been in an E46, but, compared to my M3, the MINI is very damped, refined and isolated.

I think perhaps the key word in that sentence is "my." How much have you done to your M3's suspension? My M is still, lamentably, stock (well, the suspension is). I didn't get that impression when I drove them back to back.

You do have a good point though - I wouldn't replace my M for it. If I had an Evo or WRX, I probably wouldn't replace that for it either. I just think it will make a fun commuter car.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by rwg

pDz, no insult intended, but that comment alone demonstrates that you don't understand the Mini and that you haven't spent near enough time in one, or at least that you haven't spent time on the right roads.

As for the "isolated" comments from the recent test drivers, I can only disagree - especially when you start comparing it to the e46. The clutch is good, the steering is quicker and better weighted (imo) and you can feel most of the road. It could be a little stiffer, but they started putting softer shocks in or something b/c their customers were complaining about the stiff ride. :roll: What did they think they were buying, anyway?



Yes, I admit I am biased. I think they are a ton of fun.

hey man, none taken. we're all entitled to our own opinions and this is a pretty educated crowd.

i have very different needs for my commuter cars and that dictates something a lot different than most here. i need AWD because it's a pain in the ass to wait on the plows to clear things. i need to carry three canines.

and i still want speed for merging, passing and goofing off on the way to run errands.

tough to find all that for less than 25k.

mini's too small and a tad underpowered for my own taste. and there are huge caveats in that. everyone knows. i'm not sane.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by TD

I forgot to mention that I though the steering, shifter and clutch felt excellent.

But I still argue it was too isolated. Perhaps it's been a while since I've been in an E46, but, compared to my M3, the MINI is very damped, refined and isolated. I want rude and crude. A true go-kart that'll seat 4 in a pinch.

It was not that.

And it was just too slow.

But, if it wasn't a suggested replacement for my M3, I think I could really like it. As it is, it's just not fun enough.

Damped, refined and isolated are not words that must be joined at the hip. You can easily have any combination of them. The RX-8's steering is just that. I don't need wasted kick and shake in my steering to have great feel. As much as I would like it, I don't need great weighting to the steering to get that feel either. In fact, added weight would act as it's own damper, which is not a bad thing on its own (and it's actually why I would want it...heavier steering tends to counteract and smooth out hamfisted control inputs, but it has nothing to do with feel). The steering is much more refined than in any BMW and it has better feel too.