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Old 09-25-2020, 10:03 PM   #1431
wdc330i
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Just had a tour of the exís Model Y. Wow. Body panel alignment hell. Assembly is kind of a mess. I hope thatís not the norm, but even a Mazda CX-5 puts it to shame. Iím sure it excels in other areas, but thatís kind of shameful.

I wonder how much correction they can do after the fact...
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Old 09-25-2020, 10:04 PM   #1432
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Originally Posted by Josh (PA) View Post
From what I've been reading, the X5 is limited to 16amps max charging flow. So quickest you can charge it to full is 7hrs. Not really meant to stop by a supercharger and juice up, more meant to be an efficiency and power addition to a detuned b58 engine.

I did find it interesting in the review that Harry did 812 of his 1500 total miles in full electric mode. That is decent.



This x5 seems to be a quantum leap from the previous gen BMW plug in hybrids. It is a really good package size, and the price is only about $10k - $12k more than a comparably optioned x3 m40 as I built it. Thats before tax credits and any other cost of ownership related savings.
It would be great if one could rent it for a month, and see how it really lives before committing.
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Old 09-26-2020, 08:36 AM   #1433
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Originally Posted by wdc330i View Post
Just had a tour of the exís Model Y. Wow. Body panel alignment hell. Assembly is kind of a mess. I hope thatís not the norm, but even a Mazda CX-5 puts it to shame. Iím sure it excels in other areas, but thatís kind of shameful.

I wonder how much correction they can do after the fact...
That's just how a large percentage of Teslas are from the factory. The build quality is abysmal.
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Old 09-26-2020, 09:18 AM   #1434
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That's just how a large percentage of Teslas are from the factory. The build quality is abysmal.
Just awful.
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Old 09-26-2020, 11:06 AM   #1435
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Originally Posted by wdc330i View Post
Just had a tour of the ex’s Model Y. Wow. Body panel alignment hell. Assembly is kind of a mess. I hope that’s not the norm, but even a Mazda CX-5 puts it to shame. I’m sure it excels in other areas, but that’s kind of shameful.

I wonder how much correction they can do after the fact...
End-of-quarter deliveries with Tesla have a horrible reputation.

They should be able fix it... Ours was also an end-of-quarter delivery and there were several cosmetic assembly issues (carpets not tucked in correctly in 3 places for example), a misaligned trim piece on one door (turned out to be they installed the left-hand side part on the right side -- so replacing the part was all that was needed), a bad seat belt sensor in the rear (would warn that it was unbuckled when the rear seat was folded), and the rear hatch close button would only register a press about 1/3 of the time. All of those have been fixed, but the car is now in the body shop for paint repairs to fix a bunch of imperfections in the paint (including 2 that were marked but not repaired before it left the factory!).

Tesla really needs to get their initial quality up -- this kind of stuff can ruin their reputation... Its getting worse -- all 3 of ours have had some issues at delivery. The S and 3 only had 2-3 minor issues at delivery, but were not quarter-end deliveries. The Y had a bunch -- if we hadn't been moving in a few weeks, we probably would have refused delivery...

But... None of these have impacted long-term reliability on any of the cars so far. The 3 is holding up real well -- with the only warranty service items on it in the last 2 years and 17k miles being a broken trim clip in the trunk that took a whopping 5 min to fix, and a minor misalignment of one of the door handles (it was no longer flush with the body)...
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Old 09-26-2020, 11:22 AM   #1436
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Originally Posted by Josh (PA) View Post
Tesla people, what is the real world range of the model S long range (402mile) car.

IE: If I wanted to take it to the lake on a 270 - 290 mile mostly highway drive that I currently average about 78mph (a good portion of highway cruising at ~85 - 90mph) with some decent elevation changes could I easily make it without stopping?

for comparison, I can easily do it on one tank of gas in the x5 with at least 150 miles of residual.
Josh -
I'd recommend putting your route into https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/ to see what it says. I've found its estimates to be within a couple miles of rated range use when I've used it to plan trips.

Couple tips on it:
- I usually set the "speed multiplier" to 1.1 -- that's supposed to mean 10% above the average flow of traffic (per the Google Maps API reported speed, but also seems to be close to 10% above the posted limit based on my own observations).
- You can play with headwind/tailwind speeds if you experience windy conditions on this route
- You can also change things like the temperature to see what its like in summer vs other seasons.
- It has some other settings, but things like payload don't really impact range too much (especially for a long trip where you are not accelerating/decelerating, which is when the additional weight has an impact)...

Not knowing exactly which lake you are on, I just did a route from Philly to Seneca Falls, NY, which is 273 miles. At 1.2 speed multiplier (so even faster), it says a Model S P100D with 19" wheels would need 300 rated miles to make that route -- with average speed for the trip at 71mph (with ~200 miles of it between 78-83). Here's the link: https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=33ke9e28
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Old 09-26-2020, 12:01 PM   #1437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZBB View Post
End-of-quarter deliveries with Tesla have a horrible reputation.

They should be able fix it... Ours was also an end-of-quarter delivery and there were several cosmetic assembly issues (carpets not tucked in correctly in 3 places for example), a misaligned trim piece on one door (turned out to be they installed the left-hand side part on the right side -- so replacing the part was all that was needed), a bad seat belt sensor in the rear (would warn that it was unbuckled when the rear seat was folded), and the rear hatch close button would only register a press about 1/3 of the time. All of those have been fixed, but the car is now in the body shop for paint repairs to fix a bunch of imperfections in the paint (including 2 that were marked but not repaired before it left the factory!).

Tesla really needs to get their initial quality up -- this kind of stuff can ruin their reputation... Its getting worse -- all 3 of ours have had some issues at delivery. The S and 3 only had 2-3 minor issues at delivery, but were not quarter-end deliveries. The Y had a bunch -- if we hadn't been moving in a few weeks, we probably would have refused delivery...

But... None of these have impacted long-term reliability on any of the cars so far. The 3 is holding up real well -- with the only warranty service items on it in the last 2 years and 17k miles being a broken trim clip in the trunk that took a whopping 5 min to fix, and a minor misalignment of one of the door handles (it was no longer flush with the body)...
She would be loving the car were it not for the (so far) cosmetic issues. It really does mar the overall owner experience. Maybe she can live with it. I'd return it. And I am cooled to buying one in the future.

Her car has multiple misaligned panels, and bad seams in the interior carpet. Those were the obvious flaws in the 5 minute walk around I did.
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Old 09-26-2020, 03:53 PM   #1438
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Originally Posted by wdc330i View Post
She would be loving the car were it not for the (so far) cosmetic issues. It really does mar the overall owner experience. Maybe she can live with it. I'd return it. And I am cooled to buying one in the future.

Her car has multiple misaligned panels, and bad seams in the interior carpet. Those were the obvious flaws in the 5 minute walk around I did.
Iím with you ... bad alignment of body panels drives me crazy, I remember my 330Ci had the passengers door slightly lower then the rear fender and while I did fix it myself (Adjusted the door latch) it makes me look at all the doors of my cars since to make sure they line up ... also I remember my 93 Corvette had a exterior door trim molding that didnít line up as well as multiple rattles in the hatch ... so frustrating

The more I read about Tesla the more I realize it isnít for me.
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:47 PM   #1439
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Originally Posted by ZBB View Post
Josh -
I'd recommend putting your route into https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/ to see what it says. I've found its estimates to be within a couple miles of rated range use when I've used it to plan trips.

Couple tips on it:
- I usually set the "speed multiplier" to 1.1 -- that's supposed to mean 10% above the average flow of traffic (per the Google Maps API reported speed, but also seems to be close to 10% above the posted limit based on my own observations).
- You can play with headwind/tailwind speeds if you experience windy conditions on this route
- You can also change things like the temperature to see what its like in summer vs other seasons.
- It has some other settings, but things like payload don't really impact range too much (especially for a long trip where you are not accelerating/decelerating, which is when the additional weight has an impact)...

Not knowing exactly which lake you are on, I just did a route from Philly to Seneca Falls, NY, which is 273 miles. At 1.2 speed multiplier (so even faster), it says a Model S P100D with 19" wheels would need 300 rated miles to make that route -- with average speed for the trip at 71mph (with ~200 miles of it between 78-83). Here's the link: https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=33ke9e28
Distance 266.9 miles
Driving Time 3:45
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 3:45
Total Energy Used 115.2 kWh
384 RM
Average Efficiency 432 Wh/mile
Net Elevation Change 249 feet

That's what it said. Not sure what it means. is 384 the amount of power miles I would use?
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Old 09-26-2020, 05:44 PM   #1440
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Originally Posted by Josh (PA) View Post
Distance 266.9 miles
Driving Time 3:45
Charging Time 0:00
Total Trip Time 3:45
Total Energy Used 115.2 kWh
384 RM
Average Efficiency 432 Wh/mile
Net Elevation Change 249 feet

That's what it said. Not sure what it means. is 384 the amount of power miles I would use?
384 RM = 384 rated miles. Basically its estimating that it would take 384 miles of range to go 266.9 miles. The average efficiency of 432Wh/mile is really bad by the way (Model S is rated at 300Wh/mile). This is the EV equivalent of MPG -- basically tells you how much energy (Wh) you use to go 1 mile...

Which Model S did you pick on the thing? If it had 21" wheels, those are less efficient. The 19" inch wheels get better range (smaller wheels = less rolling resistance...)
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