Cars I want to want - Page 4

John V · 10-17-2018, 07:19 AM

I think I've come to the conclusion that I'd like the Boxster more if it were a Cayman :P

I drove the Boxster to work on Monday and Tuesday (I'm in the Mazdaspeed today). This is going to sound like a first-world-problems whine, but here's what annoys me about the Boxster.

1) Wind noise. The top is insulated and of very high quality, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't a hard roof.

2) Rattles / squeaks. Convertibles are fairly well-known for this in general and if I'm diligent about gummi-pflegeing the door seals, it's quiet. But give it a week and the general flexiness of everything will cause some very minor squeaks. I admit that I'm super sensitive to and annoyed by very minor rattles, and my wife doesn't notice this stuff, but I do.

3) This is the biggie... I just don't think I'm a convertible person. Or maybe just not as long as I'm a Maryland resident. I just don't get much top-down time because of the heat and humidity here. So I'm living with the tradeoffs of having a convertible for the ~ 10 nights a year that I want to have the top down. Not worth it.

I guess the point of posting this here is the Boxster has become a car that I want to want... but not one that I necessarily want.

Maybe I'm just being salty about the gray / cold / wet weather this season and this will all change when we have the random 70 degree day in November.

Biggins · 10-17-2018, 07:40 AM

I hate to say it, but my answer to this question is a Miata... I've driven two different NDs and one NA, so I can't say I've experienced all versions. They are great cars, I get the point, and I can't come up with any reason why I shouldn't have one instead of my FR-S other than they've just never interested me like they should. I'm sure I'll own one someday, but maybe the reason is the same as JV's "Boxster vs. Cayman conundrum" except on a ~$20k less scale?

Nissan 350/370Z
E85/E86 BMW Z4
Mitsubishi Evo

equ · 10-17-2018, 08:38 AM

I recommend you get a 987.2 (due to steering feel and gearing, someone like you can solve the brake feel). With two sets of wheels, a base Cayman would be a wonderful commuter. It's also the "good"/closed deck 9A1 engine but the only one without DI, so no carbon cleaning ever. Only downside I can think of is passenger side rear three-quarters visibility in odd merges.

Interesting on the wind noise. I don't hear any, even at higher speeds, on the highway with the Boxster. I never noticed an "increase" in wind noise going from 911/Cayman to the Boxster.

The squeaks and extra moving bits are certainly there. The Cayman actually has more engine noise due it being "more in the cabin". Finally, both have a solid amount of tire noise, some of it by design so you hear the surface. The car can be whisper quiet on new blacktop and roar on some concrete. You can pass a sprinkling of loose surface and hear the pitter patter of it hitting the wheel wells.

equ · 10-17-2018, 08:41 AM

Why base 2.9 instead of 3.4S? I think the latter makes the better weekend sports car and the former feels easier to be in day in day out with less straightline temptation. But sure, an S would do. Also JV has and for the foreseeable future will have race car builds that even a Porsche could not compete with, so why even start? Just get a super nice daily.

ff · 10-17-2018, 08:45 AM

John, you listed all the reasons why I often wished that my S2000 was a hardtop instead of a convertible. As much as I loved owning that car far more than any other, it still wasn't the perfect one for me.

equ · 10-17-2018, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggins

I hate to say it, but my answer to this question is a Miata...

Nissan 350/370Z
E85/E86 BMW Z4
Mitsubishi Evo

Maybe for a short commute? But unless the purse is severely constrained, none of those cars come close to a base boxster/cayman except on paper. I get tired fairly quickly on long drives and I love to nitpick on comfort and NVH, i.e., I'm spoiled somewhat. I had no troubles driving my 997 to Raleigh, NC in one shot and returning the next day in a 987. They are great highway and long trip cars. I have a feeling a miata or an s2000 (or an Evo) would have beat me up in a way only a 4-cyl can.

The z4 and the 350Z are going to be reasonably comfortable, but they are nowhere near as fun or even good cars that hold value. Especially the 350Z, with a coarse engine, not that comfy or ergonomic interior. But again, I'm comparing to luxo cars. Remember he's coming from a nice Boxster!

lemming · 10-17-2018, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John V

I think I've come to the conclusion that I'd like the Boxster more if it were a Cayman :P

I drove the Boxster to work on Monday and Tuesday (I'm in the Mazdaspeed today). This is going to sound like a first-world-problems whine, but here's what annoys me about the Boxster.

1) Wind noise. The top is insulated and of very high quality, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't a hard roof.

2) Rattles / squeaks. Convertibles are fairly well-known for this in general and if I'm diligent about gummi-pflegeing the door seals, it's quiet. But give it a week and the general flexiness of everything will cause some very minor squeaks. I admit that I'm super sensitive to and annoyed by very minor rattles, and my wife doesn't notice this stuff, but I do.

3) This is the biggie... I just don't think I'm a convertible person. Or maybe just not as long as I'm a Maryland resident. I just don't get much top-down time because of the heat and humidity here. So I'm living with the tradeoffs of having a convertible for the ~ 10 nights a year that I want to have the top down. Not worth it.

I guess the point of posting this here is the Boxster has become a car that I want to want... but not one that I necessarily want.

Maybe I'm just being salty about the gray / cold / wet weather this season and this will all change when we have the random 70 degree day in November.

I love driving a convertible. For one or two days of the year. So agree with you.

John V · 10-17-2018, 09:38 AM

I will say, I've driven a lot of cars and I've never noticed anything remotely wrong with the brake feel of my 987.2. I'm sure the GT3 master cylinder is better... everything on a GT3 is better

but I wonder if equ's experience is not the norm. The brakes on the Boxster are phenomenal.

As far as base 2.9 vs. 3.4... The 2.9 is just too slow. the 3.4 is in the bare minimum power level for the capability of this chassis. For me. YMMV and all that.

Chris, you should definitely drive a Z4 and see if you like it, but holy crap I hate the way those cars drive. They are even worse than the E46 M3 when it comes to ride/handling balance. Truly bizarre handling cars.

Biggins · 10-17-2018, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ

Maybe for a short commute? But unless the purse is severely constrained, none of those cars come close to a base boxster/cayman except on paper. I get tired fairly quickly on long drives and I love to nitpick on comfort and NVH, i.e., I'm spoiled somewhat. I had no troubles driving my 997 to Raleigh, NC in one shot and returning the next day in a 987. They are great highway and long trip cars. I have a feeling a miata or an s2000 (or an Evo) would have beat me up in a way only a 4-cyl can.

The z4 and the 350Z are going to be reasonably comfortable, but they are nowhere near as fun or even good cars that hold value. Especially the 350Z, with a coarse engine, not that comfy or ergonomic interior. But again, I'm comparing to luxo cars. Remember he's coming from a nice Boxster!

I wasn't meaning to compare any to the Boxster/Cayman, only that the Miata/FRS are the options I can attain right now. I know they are not on the same level. I know JV is not going to get an 86/FRS/BRZ and probably not a Miata.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John V

Chris, you should definitely drive a Z4 and see if you like it, but holy crap I hate the way those cars drive. They are even worse than the E46 M3 when it comes to ride/handling balance. Truly bizarre handling cars.

I rode in Kam's Z4M once and liked its power delivery a lot, but it seemed pretty weird on corner entry (though could have been driving style, setup, etc). They would have to drop a bit more in price, but I tend to like the ugly duckling type cars.

John V · 10-17-2018, 10:03 AM

The Z4Ms are even worse in the handling department. They're just ... no fun unless you're going in a straight line. IMO.

Yeah, Miata/FRS/BRZ are definitely not my cup of tea. I drove a stock FR-S once and was really underwhelmed.

I haven't driven one, but I bet an M2 would be a pretty perfect daily driver for me... if they weren't so freaking expensive, and if they weren't a BMW.

Modern BMWs just suck ass to work on, and they have a lot of recurring issues. I put a lot of miles on my cars. I don't want to work on them constantly.

I loved my E46... it was just too slow and it seemed like I was always working on it. I loved my E36 (and Nick's E36 brought back a lot of good memories) but holy crap they're old.

I feel like I should go drive a V8 gen6 Camaro.

10-17-2018, 07:19 AM	#31
John V No more BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Ram, MS3, CX-5, RX-8 Location: Glenwood, MD Posts: 14,753	I think I've come to the conclusion that I'd like the Boxster more if it were a Cayman :P I drove the Boxster to work on Monday and Tuesday (I'm in the Mazdaspeed today). This is going to sound like a first-world-problems whine, but here's what annoys me about the Boxster. 1) Wind noise. The top is insulated and of very high quality, but there is no getting around the fact that it isn't a hard roof. 2) Rattles / squeaks. Convertibles are fairly well-known for this in general and if I'm diligent about gummi-pflegeing the door seals, it's quiet. But give it a week and the general flexiness of everything will cause some very minor squeaks. I admit that I'm super sensitive to and annoyed by very minor rattles, and my wife doesn't notice this stuff, but I do. 3) This is the biggie... I just don't think I'm a convertible person. Or maybe just not as long as I'm a Maryland resident. I just don't get much top-down time because of the heat and humidity here. So I'm living with the tradeoffs of having a convertible for the ~ 10 nights a year that I want to have the top down. Not worth it. I guess the point of posting this here is the Boxster has become a car that I want to want... but not one that I necessarily want. Maybe I'm just being salty about the gray / cold / wet weather this season and this will all change when we have the random 70 degree day in November.

10-17-2018, 07:40 AM	#32
Biggins Crotchety Join Date: Aug 2007 Carmudgeonly Ride: 22 Tiguan, 11 328i Posts: 912	I hate to say it, but my answer to this question is a Miata... I've driven two different NDs and one NA, so I can't say I've experienced all versions. They are great cars, I get the point, and I can't come up with any reason why I shouldn't have one instead of my FR-S other than they've just never interested me like they should. I'm sure I'll own one someday, but maybe the reason is the same as JV's "Boxster vs. Cayman conundrum" except on a ~$20k less scale? Nissan 350/370Z E85/E86 BMW Z4 Mitsubishi Evo

10-17-2018, 08:38 AM	#33
equ Alphanumeric Join Date: Aug 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: 981S, 340i Posts: 9,583	I recommend you get a 987.2 (due to steering feel and gearing, someone like you can solve the brake feel). With two sets of wheels, a base Cayman would be a wonderful commuter. It's also the "good"/closed deck 9A1 engine but the only one without DI, so no carbon cleaning ever. Only downside I can think of is passenger side rear three-quarters visibility in odd merges. Interesting on the wind noise. I don't hear any, even at higher speeds, on the highway with the Boxster. I never noticed an "increase" in wind noise going from 911/Cayman to the Boxster. The squeaks and extra moving bits are certainly there. The Cayman actually has more engine noise due it being "more in the cabin". Finally, both have a solid amount of tire noise, some of it by design so you hear the surface. The car can be whisper quiet on new blacktop and roar on some concrete. You can pass a sprinkling of loose surface and hear the pitter patter of it hitting the wheel wells.

10-17-2018, 08:41 AM	#34
equ Alphanumeric Join Date: Aug 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: 981S, 340i Posts: 9,583	Why base 2.9 instead of 3.4S? I think the latter makes the better weekend sports car and the former feels easier to be in day in day out with less straightline temptation. But sure, an S would do. Also JV has and for the foreseeable future will have race car builds that even a Porsche could not compete with, so why even start? Just get a super nice daily.

10-17-2018, 08:45 AM	#35
ff . Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 13,514	John, you listed all the reasons why I often wished that my S2000 was a hardtop instead of a convertible. As much as I loved owning that car far more than any other, it still wasn't the perfect one for me.

10-17-2018, 09:38 AM	#38
John V No more BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Ram, MS3, CX-5, RX-8 Location: Glenwood, MD Posts: 14,753	I will say, I've driven a lot of cars and I've never noticed anything remotely wrong with the brake feel of my 987.2. I'm sure the GT3 master cylinder is better... everything on a GT3 is better but I wonder if equ's experience is not the norm. The brakes on the Boxster are phenomenal. As far as base 2.9 vs. 3.4... The 2.9 is just too slow. the 3.4 is in the bare minimum power level for the capability of this chassis. For me. YMMV and all that. Chris, you should definitely drive a Z4 and see if you like it, but holy crap I hate the way those cars drive. They are even worse than the E46 M3 when it comes to ride/handling balance. Truly bizarre handling cars.

10-17-2018, 10:03 AM	#40
John V No more BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Ram, MS3, CX-5, RX-8 Location: Glenwood, MD Posts: 14,753	The Z4Ms are even worse in the handling department. They're just ... no fun unless you're going in a straight line. IMO. Yeah, Miata/FRS/BRZ are definitely not my cup of tea. I drove a stock FR-S once and was really underwhelmed. I haven't driven one, but I bet an M2 would be a pretty perfect daily driver for me... if they weren't so freaking expensive, and if they weren't a BMW. Modern BMWs just suck ass to work on, and they have a lot of recurring issues. I put a lot of miles on my cars. I don't want to work on them constantly. I loved my E46... it was just too slow and it seemed like I was always working on it. I loved my E36 (and Nick's E36 brought back a lot of good memories) but holy crap they're old. I feel like I should go drive a V8 gen6 Camaro.