Footnote to History.....

[lip277]

Some of us may remember when Porsche made a big splash by adapting the engine out of the 911 and making it available for use in airplanes.....

Porsche is now formally out of the airplane engine business. The carmaker made a big splash 20 years ago when it offered its legendary designs for aircraft, but they never took off. There are only 20 Porsche-powered planes still flying and the company is offering to replace them with other engines or buy the planes rather than maintaining support...

Sounds alot like the Beech Starship. Just too far ahead of their time.

Oh well....

[blee]

Huh. I've never heard of that before. What kind of planes are we talking about here?

[lip277]

Mainly Mooney 201's as I can recall.....

[Pinecone]

It wasn't the engine itself that caused the problem, it was the managed controls. Instead of the normal 3 levers or knobs to control engines on this class of airplane (throttle, mixture, prop pitch/RPM) the PFM (porsche Flug Motor) only had a single lever. Change is not well adopted by aviation.

The Beech Starship did well, it was just that Beech didn't want to deal with potential structural problems after the number of years and hours on 1st generation composite structures.

[zach]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

It wasn't the engine itself that caused the problem, it was the managed controls. Instead of the normal 3 levers or knobs to control engines on this class of airplane (throttle, mixture, prop pitch/RPM) the PFM (porsche Flug Motor) only had a single lever. Change is not well adopted by aviation.

The Beech Starship did well, it was just that Beech didn't want to deal with potential structural problems after the number of years and hours on 1st generation composite structures.

Raytheon is in Massachusetts and I remember looking up at the sky as a child and wondering wtf that was flying over my house.

Raytheon eventually bought back the few Starships that were sold and destroyed them. There is one left and Burt Rutan has it.

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by zcasavant

Raytheon is in Massachusetts and I remember looking up at the sky as a child and wondering wtf that was flying over my house.

Raytheon eventually bought back the few Starships that were sold and destroyed them. There is one left and Burt Rutan has it.

That's sad... I remember seeing them fly over AZ occasionally ~ 10 years ago...

[lip277]

Originally Posted by Pinecone

It wasn't the engine itself that caused the problem, it was the managed controls. Instead of the normal 3 levers or knobs to control engines on this class of airplane (throttle, mixture, prop pitch/RPM) the PFM (porsche Flug Motor) only had a single lever. Change is not well adopted by aviation.

It was also heavy and very expensive. Service was also an issue. The fuel burn was decent but the cost of the gear box in terms of weight and maintenance more than made up for any perceived performance gains. It was kind of a Rube Golberg approach to things. Very complex behind the scenes even though the single power lever was useful.

Originally Posted by Pinecone

The Beech Starship did well, it was just that Beech didn't want to deal with potential structural problems after the number of years and hours on 1st generation composite structures.

The Starship looked a lot better than it flew. It was overweight and had almost a 'craft/garage build' quality to it as opposed to being a 'mass produced' airplane. There were very funky design issues that Beech used to satisfy the FAA in terms of damage tolerance and durability that wouldn't be used now. But then again, being the first means you have to pave the way for the ones that follow. I actually had a short talk with Burt Rutan many years back at school. He was an Aero Engineering grad from Cal Poly as am I and he made a trip there every year to talk to the students. There were several of us that were curious as to how the Starship was going..... This was the mid 80's when it was brand new.

Burt was VERY disappointed at both Beech and the FAA in how they certified it.... He said the airplane was about 2000 lbs heavier, 120 knots slower and had (maybe) 1500 miles less range than it should have.... But that's Burt with a chip on his shoulder (if you get my meaning.....)

[Pinecone]

I talked to some guys who flew one and they seemed to be pretty happy with it. But you are right, being first has its downsides. But a much better concept than teh LearFan.

But composites can have life span issues (Aas can aluminum airplanes). Yeah Beech bought them back to not hav eto support a few airplanes. Just like Porsche is trying to do with the PFM engines.

But at least both companies bought them back rather than just dropping support like a lot of companies do.