Time for a slow 981 search

[Josh (PA)]

Originally Posted by John V

The 911 is such a different car than the Boxster, I have a hard time thinking it would be a reasonable substitute for Josh, but interested to hear from him on it.

I was about to post the same thing about the used car market. It seems like a great time to be a seller and not necessarily a buyer. Could you sell your Boxster now before the season is over, sit on the cash, and then try to get back into the market in the spring?

I get what you're saying about the 911, I just know JST has lusted after one forever (he started the dial 911 thread). The turbo engine in the 991.2 gives it a pretty different personality than the .1 cars, making the .2 cars even more different than the boxsters.

I've watched the 911 market really closely since i bought mine. I mentioned in another thread, I have an OCD issue of being sure I made a good purchase long after I bought something. Cars anywhere near my spec and mileage today are listing for at least $10k more than I paid for mine in March. That isn't an exageration, that's the low side of the market, lots are running $15k more. Just a data point on current market conditions.

If you're OK living without a boxster for winter trying to sell it now on BAT and pocketing the money unitl spring would be a fiscally smart move. Heck, plug it into carvana and see what the no hassle purchase price would be. My friend got good money for his base .2

[FC]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

Something for JST and FC to fight over:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...lhZmCtqddU_RGa
Edit:
Here is the for sale link:
https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1216335

Very nice. Not too expensive either. But it does have some quirks. Not to sound like a wimp, but no heated seats is a con for sure.

I'm meh on the wheels and tires, as well as a few cosmetic tweaks. But overall, nice car.

I feel I need to not look at Boxsters for a year given the new job and the likely purchase of a GTI. I'd still be open for a great find, but that will be very unlikely in this superheated Porsche environment with low supplies of MT Boxsters.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

Cars anywhere near my spec and mileage today are listing for at least $10k more than I paid for mine in March. That isn't an exageration, that's the low side of the market, lots are running $15k more. Just a data point on current market conditions.

If you're OK living without a boxster for winter trying to sell it now on BAT and pocketing the money unitl spring would be a fiscally smart move. Heck, plug it into carvana and see what the no hassle purchase price would be. My friend got good money for his base .2

The idea of selling now and waiting until...sometime else may have a lot of smart to it. Or, dunno...

Retail prices on used cars are probably right about their peak. Wholesale/trade prices seem to have peaked in early/mid-September and have fallen about 4% since then according to JD Power and Cox Auto data. While used supplies are still tight, they are not as tight as they had been. Auctions are moving metal again and new car production is hitting dealer lots at a rate approaching "normal" which is enabling new car sales to generate more trade-ins than during summer. In late September, only about 2% of dealer new inventory were MY2021 units. Normally, in late September, dealer new inventory is about 20% new model year.

That data matches pretty close to what I've seen for the Camaros. Obviously, a single data point and a niche one at that, but it doesn't appear to stray far.

The Carvana offer for my old car, if it were still mine, is off about 10% from what they paid me end of July. The offers they're making on VINs I plug in for 2019 and 2020 Camaro SSs are off 10-12% for comparable VINs I checked out when I sold my car.

Not really seeing that reflected in retail pricing yet, though. Carvana eventually dropped the asking price on my car about 10% which finally prompted someone to initiate a purchase (car is still shown as "purchase pending" this morning) and should still enable a small profit, but probably not one they could survive on if that was a typical deal.

It's going to be hard for dealers to sell cars they paid top dollar for at lower prices, but at some point, their choice will be to keep sitting on inventory or cut their losses. Maybe this really starts to play out in December/January?

Other factors out there that don't seem to be having much impact right now are:

• loan delinquencies, up
• repos, up
• a million things affecting employment that are in "we don't know yet" mode
• election and potential aftermath

Overall, while we may be past the highest used wholesale value, if you're thinking of doing it, I'd do it sooner than later. Private sale might be worth trying, but I'd be hesitant to put much time into that because it may be hard enough and time will not be on your side to find a buyer and see a deal through to completion.

I'd only consider buying now if you really needed it now, it was a super difficult hard to find car, and you don't mind paying a premium over what the car would have sold for in March or will likely be worth next March.

Take my thoughts and advice for what they're worth. I've been pretty public in the storytelling of my year long plus saga. Although, if I'd known then what I know now, I still may be in the same position, but just have been better prepared for it.

[Josh (PA)]

JST: you wouldn't even need to give up your blue interior:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

JST: you wouldn't even need to give up your blue interior:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

Oh, wow.

[JST]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

JST: you wouldn't even need to give up your blue interior:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

That's pretty, but not an S and also I don't want to spend $80K.

Fundamentally, the 911 thing is tricky for me. I have a lingering desire to own one, but now that my kids are bigger it's not much more useful than a Boxster, and a convertible can't run at PCA track events. Not sure I want to do those, but...not sure I don't want to do those, either.

I'd sort of like a 911 coupe, just on general principles. And I'd *really* like a GT3, but I can't afford one of those. And I really don't want to give up having a convertible.

I'm not sure what the used car market is going to do. It's possible that by next March it's back to "normal," whatever that is. It's also possible that there is a recession that drives prices on cars like Porsches down, like in 2010 (it's *utterly* bizarre to me that that hasn't happened yet, but that's a different discussion).

Of course, if that happens, there's also a good chance that whatever drives the prices of cars down also drives down the chances of me buying a car, particularly a frivolous fun car. If I sold mine now I might not be able to justify getting something else if I wait 6 months.

Plus also, the "season" here is pretty long, so selling my car now means I don't have a fun car to drive on the nice days between now and whenever.

I clearly don't *need* to buy a car now, but on the other hand inventory on these cars is always pretty thin and the chance to buy a low mileage one in decent spec locally is rare. Not non-existent, but also not something you can count on doing.

I'd entertain the thought of something really different, but it's hard to picture what that would be (other than maybe that LS1 swapped RX7). The Porsche is just so good.

I don't really want a Corvette. Mustangs are fun but the Porsche is more fun. Ditto Camaros. I could probably be talked into looking at a Supra if it had a stick but...it doesn't.

EDIT: I'd be interested in an NSX, just for the fuck of it, if they weren't so stupid expensive.

[equ]

Originally Posted by JST

Link here. It’s the one from up thread.

https://www.carmax.com/car/19378333

The nice thing about CarMax is that for $100 they’ll bring it here and hold it until I can go look at it. Not a bad price for that.

We’ll see. It’s been a long time since I drove a .2 back to back with my car. It may end up the difference is small enough that it’s not worth doing. Or the car might be a dog.

Maybe I’ll submit mine to BaT. That would be kind of fun.

For several years I was barely driving the Porsche and replacing it was nonsensical. Now the youngest kid is old enough to ride in it and insists on doing so, so I’m driving it a lot more (even given the pandemic).

It might even make sense to buy a car like equ’s and ditch the M3 in favor of something my other kid could drive in a couple of years. But decently spec’d 981s are hard to find and $$$, so maybe just a new 987 makes sense.

Or not! Idk. We’ll see.

I like that car. Nice basic looking spec with sport seats. I prefer PASM for a smoother ride and better than base handling. It was available on 987's though JST might prefer the less comfortable passive sports suspension that you can retrofit.

I think it's easily worth $100 to do a back to back 987.1 & 987.2 comparo. To be complete, he should find a 981S to drive in quick succession. Then he can make the decision whether to keep, or to jump and if so, to which one...

The torque difference is not going to be much. The biggest thing with the .2 is the fundamentally better engine design that brings some peace of mind though I'm not sure if that's as important in a nine year old car. The 987.2 has better gearing than the 981 and more fun hydraulic steering. The 981 has a fancier cabin, better brakes, perhaps a bit more front grip and more engine sound. Perhaps smoother shifting & ride. When you're pushing, I don't find myself complaining about the electric steering, it's tuned very well both in the 981 and 991's. When you're not pushing it's got a lazy feel and tunes out some of the fizz that the 987/997 steering had.

[equ]

JoshPa is right about 991.2 prices, there is very low inventory and his deal is nowhere to be had. I'm happy he got it when he did. I'm not following it super closely, but I would be quite interested in a clean, reasonably-optioned 991.2 coupe/manual in the low to mid 70's. As of now, 2013 991.1S's are in that range, and I'm not willing to pay that.

It's true I don't drive my 981S enough and I'm hankering for a 911 coupe (which I will also not drive much). However, I'm not willing to pay arms & legs to get one. $80k is a bit dear, even it's somewhat counteracted by the slightly inflated value of my 981S (better optioned and maintained than that white one on rennlist. that car needs not just plugs but also coils $$. I like it less than the carmax car, because of the mods). I still don't see how to get a better porsche experience for the mid-40's than what I have. If I had no car and just money in my account, I'd probably get a 987.2S, probably a cayman. If I had loads of cash to burn, I'd just take the hit and but a 991.2.

[Josh (PA)]

Originally Posted by JST

That's pretty, but not an S and also I don't want to spend $80K.

.

I understand the rest of the post so this comment is probably moot.. but on .2 cars you really don't need an S. The low end torque and 370 hp up top make it feel SIGNIFICANTLY faster than a 981S. PASM is standard, and with a DSC module, you can load in the GT3 damper tuning and swap between a soft cruise setting and a GT3 sport setting.

DSC module info here if you're interested: https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1101...ol-module.html)

If you want more power, slap a cobb tune on it and you're at GTS levels.

[JST]

Originally Posted by equ

I like that car. Nice basic looking spec with sport seats. I prefer PASM for a smoother ride and better than base handling. It was available on 987's though JST might prefer the less comfortable passive sports suspension that you can retrofit.

I think it's easily worth $100 to do a back to back 987.1 & 987.2 comparo. To be complete, he should find a 981S to drive in quick succession. Then he can make the decision whether to keep, or to jump and if so, to which one...

The torque difference is not going to be much. The biggest thing with the .2 is the fundamentally better engine design that brings some peace of mind though I'm not sure if that's as important in a nine year old car. The 987.2 has better gearing than the 981 and more fun hydraulic steering. The 981 has a fancier cabin, better brakes, perhaps a bit more front grip and more engine sound. Perhaps smoother shifting & ride. When you're pushing, I don't find myself complaining about the electric steering, it's tuned very well both in the 981 and 991's. When you're not pushing it's got a lazy feel and tunes out some of the fizz that the 987/997 steering had.

Oh, your comment on the brakes reminded me of something -- the 981s went to a closed window design for the calipers. Not a huge deal but it makes changing pads harder, since you can't just slip the pads out out of the back of the calipers without unbolting them.