The definitive 911 discussion thread. (993 996 997)

[FC]

The 911 is often mentioned here and elsewhere. pdz had a 993, TD often says he would like a 993, etc. The concensus seems to be that the 993 is a great car and that 996 with the base (boxster) engine are terrible.

But why? I know bits of why this is, but I would like to be enlightened as to why, from a technical standpoint, the 996 is so bad, and why if the 993 is so great, did pdz ditch it for a subaru.

I've never have had the pleasure of driving a Porsche, so I can only go by what I read and see.

So please indulge me and tell what your opinions on both the 993 and 996 are as well as opinions on coupe vs cabrio vs targa and overal reliability comparisons.

*Just because know that looks/comfort are always a factor, my opinion is that the 993 is the most beautiful 911 ever from the outside but the interior, while classic, is dated and spartan. The 911 looks only so-so from the outside, and the interior while not great is much better than the 993.

[clyde]

The SC and 930 Turbos are the best looking 911s.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by mbr129

The 911 is often mentioned here and elsewhere. pdz had a 993, TD often says he would like a 993, etc. The concensus seems to be that the 993 is a great car and that 996 with the base (boxster) engine are terrible.

But why? I know bits of why this is, but I would like to be enlightened as to why, from a technical standpoint, the 996 is so bad, and why if the 993 is so great, did pdz ditch it for a subaru.

I've never have had the pleasure of driving a Porsche, so I can only go by what I read and see.

So please indulge me and tell what your opinions on both the 993 and 996 are as well as opinions on coupe vs cabrio vs targa and overal reliability comparisons.

*Just because know that looks/comfort are always a factor, my opinion is that the 993 is the most beautiful 911 ever from the outside but the interior, while classic, is dated and spartan. The 911 looks only so-so from the outside, and the interior while not great is much better than the 993.

where would you like me to start?

street driving?

my lone track experience?

commuting in it?

trying to get parts for it?

this could take up the entire hard drive of b'evolution.

[FC]

Originally Posted by pDz

where would you like me to start?

street driving?

my lone track experience?

commuting in it?

trying to get parts for it?

this could take up the entire hard drive of b'evolution.

Personally, I'd like to hear about street driving, servicing, repiars, and just general daily life with the car.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by mbr129

Personally, I'd like to hear about street driving, servicing, repiars, and just general daily life with the car.

first, i'd recommend a visit to the 993 forum at rennlist.com; you can peruse or do a power search and they can answer this question much more eloquently than i can.

but, from my own experience:

STREET DRIVING:
street driving. street driving was okay. i mean, it was supposedly the ultimate in 30 years of aircooled engines. but because of US standards for emissions, there were many odd things about the car in street driving. for instance, there is an air pump that recirc's exhaust gas into the manifolds in order to quick light the cats? it tends to foul the air passages over time with nasty, nasty black carbon and cause lots and lots of check engine lights. that was a pain in the ass to work around and get cleaned.

the other issue is realize this is a sports car first and street car sort of second. running it to commute around in is a bad idea. the plugs foul like crazy because it runs richly and it heats up like hell's kitchen on a hot summer day with zero breeze when you're stuck in traffic and there's no air moving over the oil cooler so the oil temp skyrockets.

so, from little things, it's just a great setup for track driving and racing --for the street? um, yeah.

now, the engine displaces 3.6 litres. but, also realize that it's 2 valves per cylinder with zero variable valve timing. if you are used to the modern metric in engines, i.e. power per litre, 282hp for 3.6 litres is underwhelming on paper, and it's also underwhelming to drive. (250ft#'s). the engine sounds great because it does tend to rip (the original dual mass FW is a piece of sh*t, though) to redline but again, it's incredibly peaky power.

the car itself is also geared for the US versus the RoW so the spacing in the gears is strange, but i digress.

the US OEM suspension setup is also SUV-like for a sports car, again about an inch higher than the RoW suspension setups.

the car moves beautifully at higher speeds. it hunkers down and it moves effortlessly and fluidly through high speed sweepers, onramps and offramps. it's the parts where you get caught NOT in the powerband that are puzzling. the OEM shifter is also more saablike (ropey) than it is germanic.

brakes are brilliant. never had a car (except the STi) that had binders that clamped like the 993. stopped with the hand of zeus grabbing you.

the overall chassis rigidity again demonstrates early to mid 90s standards for torsional strength, cabrio (me) or coupe (buddy). the car flexes, creaks and groans a lot. pretty loosey goosey if you ask me. my standard for all of my cars is/will be the e36m3, so, you can extrapolate.

SERVICING/REPAIRS:
ha ha ha ha.

have you ever had an oil change that, if you went to the dealer (i did once) that cost $250? two oil filters and 12 quarts of synthetic oil? you have to take the right rear wheel off, also.

:-)

um, to do the plugs, you cannot get the cylinders most proximal to the the driver in the flat six without basically taking the engine (dropping it out) because it's so tight. lots of money.

electrically, the 993 is a nightmare. the 1995s have a well documented wiring harness failure recall, but the electrical work on all 993s is bloody awful.

the dual mass flywheels and clutches are BMW-style fragile. as i bought mine used, i had to take care of those. likely the nitwit before me liked to pretend he was in a quarter miler or something. or something.

because of the air passage/carbon issue, lots and lots and lots of people are just now reaching the mileage in the cars where they realize it's an expensive fix. it requires disassembly of the intake manifolds and some serious industrial strength solvent and/or blasting to get that carbon out of the air passages that feed the cylinders.

another issue is that cars that are babied, because it is an aircooled motors, leak oil like 1980s cavaliers. the engine has to contract/expand anyway, but it's exacerbated by old seals that dry out with non-use as is more typical of your average 911 driver.

another funny thing is that 911s do not run well on non Porsche N-rated tires. something about the sidewall stiffness not in correct harmony with the way the suspension is tuned. not a good idea to run non N1,2,3,4 rated tires. 'found out the hard way because i was trying to be stubborn and cheap.

SUMMARY:
it's a great car if everytime you drive it you run it to the max. and you never use it as a commuter. and you've owned it from day 1. and you have deep pockets to maintain it well and you can find someone that you trust (who won't gouge you) for service and upgrades/repairs.

i was completely underwhelmed.

[ayn]

Originally Posted by mbr129

*Just because know that looks/comfort are always a factor, my opinion is that the 993 is the most beautiful 911 ever from the outside but the interior, while classic, is dated and spartan. The 911 looks only so-so from the outside, and the interior while not great is much better than the 993.

that's good actually, so you won't feel too bad trashing your interior when you put a cage in it! I prefer the gauges in the 993 to the 996, interior in the 996 also sucks, so you're really not missing much with the 993.

[JST]

Originally Posted by pDz

SUMMARY:
it's a great car if everytime you drive it you run it to the max. and you never use it as a commuter. and you've owned it from day 1. and you have deep pockets to maintain it well and you can find someone that you trust (who won't gouge you) for service and upgrades/repairs.

i was completely underwhelmed.

Sigh.

You're killing me.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by ayn

that's good actually, so you won't feel too bad trashing your interior when you put a cage in it! I prefer the gauges in the 993 to the 996, interior in the 996 also sucks, so you're really not missing much with the 993.

yeah. well, i dunno --i hate those new style 996 gauges with that strange artistic font for the numbers, also.

[ayn]

I sat in a 993 cab with a custom turbo 2 weeks ago, the shfiter was really long, clutch was also long and VERY firm, definitely too stiff for comfort if you drive it daily. It's pretty much a weekend/track car, but if you track it heavily it will be very costly. I talked to a tech who works at a Porsche shop in Houston that works on Porsche race cars, and he said if somebody told me it were cheap to own a Porsche, s/he was lying... Basically he told me it costs about $1k per track weekend in an older Porsche, on average. That's pretty expensive considering the $10k Spec Miatas will still be lapping you out there!!

--Andrew

[FC]

Originally Posted by pDz

SUMMARY:
it's a great car if everytime you drive it you run it to the max. and you never use it as a commuter. and you've owned it from day 1. and you have deep pockets to maintain it well and you can find someone that you trust (who won't gouge you) for service and upgrades/repairs.

i was completely underwhelmed.

Wow. That's that for me. I know I will never be able to afford such a car as a DCAT (Dedicated Car for Autox and Track), and since you didn't find it to be a great, fun, summer car, then I will likely never own it at all.

I think there are other cheaper DCAT options out there. Like a used Elise.