Would you ride in Elon's robotaxi

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

I don’t wholly trust autopilot. I don’t like it and I don’t use it. But the answer to Clyde’s question about how we as a society let people use it lies in the tort system. If it’s defective, if it causes crashes, people will sue and the problem will get fixed. The threat of that (hopefully) means that Tesla has done its due diligence to make sure the system works.

Because I asked the others why they trust autopilot, I'll ask you why do you not wholly trust autopilot?

[JST]

Originally Posted by clyde

Because I asked the others why they trust autopilot, I'll ask you why do you not wholly trust autopilot?

I don't trust that I would have enough time between realizing that it's out of its depth and/or doing something wrong and being able to take over. As an isolated example, autopilot tends to brake later and harder than I otherwise would, meaning that I feel like by the time I knew it wasn't going to brake (if it wasn't), I'd be behind the curve, so to speak.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

I don't trust that I would have enough time between realizing that it's out of its depth and/or doing something wrong and being able to take over. As an isolated example, autopilot tends to brake later and harder than I otherwise would, meaning that I feel like by the time I knew it wasn't going to brake (if it wasn't), I'd be behind the curve, so to speak.

Thanks! Would it be fair to simplify that to "I do not trust autopilot based my (limited?) personal experience with the system"?

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by JST

I don't trust that I would have enough time between realizing that it's out of its depth and/or doing something wrong and being able to take over. As an isolated example, autopilot tends to brake later and harder than I otherwise would, meaning that I feel like by the time I knew it wasn't going to brake (if it wasn't), I'd be behind the curve, so to speak.

I also notice it does that. Same for auto-steer, especially on 2-lane / curvy roads.

But I think that's OK -- I tend to just take over if I feel its not reacting. Steering in particular is easy to take over from since my hands are on the wheel, and I just react. And "taking over" means just driving naturally. There's no big red button to push, I just drive and the car makes the disabling sound and I know I have control...

[rumatt]

Originally Posted by clyde

I asked a question. You don't answer and then demand I answer your counter questions? Nice.

What question did I not answer?

I don't understand what's so "complicated" about telling me what makes you believe it's safe enough to use. I really don't.

I've already given you a direct answer to that question

Originally Posted by me

Because you're still "driving" and you can override it any time you don't like what it is doing.

Your turn. Why do you risk the lives of everyone around you by using cruise control? Who told you it was safe?


This thread is about full self driving - for which I agree 100% with you. But autopilot is different and doesn't belong in the same discussion.

You can refuse to engage in my cruise control questions if you want, but I think you know it's a perfect analogy.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by rumatt

What question did I not answer?

Originally Posted by clyde

Why do you believe that it's safe enough to use?

I've already given you a direct answer to that question.

Originally Posted by rumatt

Why do you believe cruise control is safe to use?

I would not characterize that as an answer, direct or indirect.

You can refuse to engage in my cruise control questions if you want, but I think you know it's a perfect analogy.

It's not even close, but we'll get to it after you answer.

[JST]

My limited personal experience, yes, coupled with my general theoretical understanding of the system’s limitations.

I tend to think that those limitations are not well understood, and that autopilot if used properly doesn’t do much to help the driver. But I suppose I could be wrong about that.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

My limited personal experience, yes, coupled with my general theoretical understanding of the system’s limitations.

I tend to think that those limitations are not well understood, and that autopilot if used properly doesn’t do much to help the driver. But I suppose I could be wrong about that.

I agree that the limitations are not well understood. I also see Tesla doing as much as it can to prevent understanding of those limitations.

[robg]

Originally Posted by JST

My limited personal experience, yes, coupled with my general theoretical understanding of the system’s limitations.



I tend to think that those limitations are not well understood, and that autopilot if used properly doesn’t do much to help the driver. But I suppose I could be wrong about that.

That’s my sense as well - I think it would be less relaxing to have to carefully watch what the car is doing vs just driving myself. Kind of like driving with a student driver. Maybe in stop and go traffic id feel comfortable with it.

[rumatt]

Originally Posted by clyde

I would not characterize that as an answer, direct or indirect.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood what I was saying (given how you quoted me) or you're just being difficult.

On the off chance that it's the former, I'll clarify for the third time. I believe it's safe to use "Because I'm still 'driving' and I can override it any time I don't like what it is doing."

I never claimed it's ready for self driving - only that I feel confident in overriding the system and taking responsibility for the end result. I also stated, "I use it in scenarios where I have a safe buffer time to react."

You're a smart guy and I know you know exactly what I'm arguing. So unfortunately, I'm pretty sure it's the latter... in which case I have better things to do.

It's not even close, but we'll get to it after you answer.