The end of the automobile is coming

[FC]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the...?siteid=yhoof2

[bren]

They lost me at "kids don't like cars" and "the suburbs are dead."

It's more like kids can't afford cars and/or houses in the burbs.

[FC]

I agree. There is also the $4 a gallon thing, restrictions on teenage driving, etc. I think kids are postponing getting licenses, but eventually they will have to (not all, but most).

I see no problem with an argument that the cars per capita may go down some. But the "end of the automobile" is extreme and a bit ridiculous.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by bren

They lost me at "kids don't like cars" and "the suburbs are dead."

It's more like kids can't afford cars and/or houses in the burbs.

On cars, it's a lot more than not being able to afford it. Pre-teens and teens just don't care about cars and driving like previous generations. It's showing up in marketing study after study, all kinds of surveys, etc. I see it anecdotally through my kids and their friends, the babysitters they've had.

They just aren't interested like we were. Driving is a chore, it's a task, it's work. It's not fun, it's not enjoyable, it gets in the way of texting, etc.

I wonder how much of it has to do with the Camryfication of America in addition or in contrast to things like the ever increasing overparenting of the past 30 years. In my neighborhood, there are almost no kids that walk anywhere or take the bus or the subway. Well, some take a school bus, but they are driven the half block to two blocks to the bus stop and sit in their parents cars until the bus arrives...and then they're picked up by waiting parents when the bus comes back in the afternoon. They're all driven to activities

Historically, we've all thought of driving as representing freedom in a teenage context. Most of us were free to go where we wanted when we wanted...so long as we were willing to put up with the crapiness of public transportation and walking. Maybe that's not so much freedom as freedom with convenience?

Today, with how kids are chauffeured around, why would they want freedom from that system?

Oh god. Did I just sound like Ed?

[JST]

Originally Posted by clyde

On cars, it's a lot more than not being able to afford it. Pre-teens and teens just don't care about cars and driving like previous generations. It's showing up in marketing study after study, all kinds of surveys, etc. I see it anecdotally through my kids and their friends, the babysitters they've had.

They just aren't interested like we were. Driving is a chore, it's a task, it's work. It's not fun, it's not enjoyable, it gets in the way of texting, etc.

I wonder how much of it has to do with the Camryfication of America in addition or in contrast to things like the ever increasing overparenting of the past 30 years. In my neighborhood, there are almost no kids that walk anywhere or take the bus or the subway. Well, some take a school bus, but they are driven the half block to two blocks to the bus stop and sit in their parents cars until the bus arrives...and then they're picked up by waiting parents when the bus comes back in the afternoon. They're all driven to activities

Historically, we've all thought of driving as representing freedom in a teenage context. Most of us were free to go where we wanted when we wanted...so long as we were willing to put up with the crapiness of public transportation and walking. Maybe that's not so much freedom as freedom with convenience?

Today, with how kids are chauffeured around, why would they want freedom from that system?

Oh god. Did I just sound like Ed?

I think you did.

I think you were much closer with your initial observation that it "gets in the way of texting."

When I was 15 and lived in the 'burbs, life at home was deathly boring. Even telephone calls were expensive, and you couldn't be on the phone too long anyway since there was only one line into the house. Most of my friends weren't local, since I went to an out-of-neighborhood school, so no car meant sitting at home and staring at the wall.

These days, so much social interaction is virtual that the imperative to get up and go someplace (like a mall) to just sit around is dramatically lessened. I'm not saying kids don't still do that...it's just not as critical as it once was.

[FC]

Originally Posted by JST

I think you did.

I think you were much closer with your initial observation that it "gets in the way of texting."

When I was 15 and lived in the 'burbs, life at home was deathly boring. Even telephone calls were expensive, and you couldn't be on the phone too long anyway since there was only one line into the house. Most of my friends weren't local, since I went to an out-of-neighborhood school, so no car meant sitting at home and staring at the wall.

These days, so much social interaction is virtual that the imperative to get up and go someplace (like a mall) to just sit around is dramatically lessened. I'm not saying kids don't still do that...it's just not as critical as it once was.

I agree.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

I think you did.

I think you were much closer with your initial observation that it "gets in the way of texting."

When I was 15 and lived in the 'burbs, life at home was deathly boring. Even telephone calls were expensive, and you couldn't be on the phone too long anyway since there was only one line into the house. Most of my friends weren't local, since I went to an out-of-neighborhood school, so no car meant sitting at home and staring at the wall.

These days, so much social interaction is virtual that the imperative to get up and go someplace (like a mall) to just sit around is dramatically lessened. I'm not saying kids don't still do that...it's just not as critical as it once was.

This is all true, but when the kids do go out these days, the parents drive them. So, while one could say that sitting at home is more socially engaging than it was, when something does require leaving the house, the kids aren't walking, taking public transit or something...they're being driven by the parents...and on the kid schedules at that, not the parent schedule.

I don't think we disagree, just describing two different contributing factors. Which is bigger?

[JST]

Originally Posted by clyde

This is all true, but when the kids do go out these days, the parents drive them. So, while one could say that sitting at home is more socially engaging than it was, when something does require leaving the house, the kids aren't walking, taking public transit or something...they're being driven by the parents...and on the kid schedules at that, not the parent schedule.

I don't think we disagree, just describing two different contributing factors. Which is bigger?

Dunno. My parents drove me around, too, but even if it was on my schedule it wasn't really on my schedule, you know? Having them drive me to the occasional party or sports practice or play or dance or whatever wasn't the same as sitting in my room at 8:30 PM on a random Wednesday and thinking "shit, if I don't get out of here I am going to die of boredom."

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

Dunno. My parents drove me around, too, but even if it was on my schedule it wasn't really on my schedule, you know? Having them drive me to the occasional party or sports practice or play or dance or whatever wasn't the same as sitting in my room at 8:30 PM on a random Wednesday and thinking "shit, if I don't get out of here I am going to die of boredom."

Like you said, not on your schedule.

[lupinsea]

Originally Posted by JST

When I was 15 and lived in the 'burbs, life at home was deathly boring.

I think you were doing it wrong.

I don't really remember being bored much as a teenager. Granted, I had woods near by and several hundred acres of a huge semi-no-mans-land of dirt bike trails and more woods surrounding the adjacent electrical subsation. Then there was going over to friends houses on my bike. Sometimes several miles away. Hell, my bike was basically my car until I could drive. It took me almost everywhere I wanted / needed to go.

Oh, and then there was playing with fire. That was always entertaining. Even when I caught my hand on fire. . . . well, not boring at least.