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Old 12-13-2019, 10:50 AM   #51
wdc330i
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It does feel like the next 5 years are the last hurrah for our lusted-after ICE cars. Enjoy them now.

Although, I admit that Taycan is looking pretty compelling...
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:58 AM   #52
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It does feel like the next 5 years are the last hurrah for our lusted-after ICE cars. Enjoy them now..
This really makes me sad but progress I suppose.

MORE proof!!

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=158960
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:06 AM   #53
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Although, I admit that Taycan is looking pretty compelling...
I've never driven one so I can't judge it fairly, but the notion of a car shifting gears is massively unappealing to me at this point.

The smooth, consistent pull is addictive and the instant throttle response is the best thing about the car. Even the world's fastest shifting transmission would be a disappointment now. If they managed to insert a transmission without impacting any of those things, then OK maybe. But I'm skeptical.

For a race car where you truly need high performance in the 100+ mph range, it makes sense. But if those shifts occur in my daily driving, such as changing lanes at 60 mph, nope.

I admit the acceleration from 70-100 isn't great, but it's not bad. And for those who want more, bigger motors are coming. They will be able to be geared higher, moving the torque band up to higher speeds, and soon we'll have stupid acceleration through the entire stay-out-of-jail speed range.
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Old 12-18-2019, 08:49 PM   #54
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https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...o-zl1-1le.html

Saw this listed while browsing the marketplace. Not sure if the price is decent or if it matches what you're looking for (I don't get all the Camaro letters and what they mean), but figured it wouldn't hurt to drop it here.
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Old 12-18-2019, 09:31 PM   #55
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I've never driven one so I can't judge it fairly, but the notion of a car shifting gears is massively unappealing to me at this point.

The smooth, consistent pull is addictive and the instant throttle response is the best thing about the car. Even the world's fastest shifting transmission would be a disappointment now. If they managed to insert a transmission without impacting any of those things, then OK maybe. But I'm skeptical.

For a race car where you truly need high performance in the 100+ mph range, it makes sense. But if those shifts occur in my daily driving, such as changing lanes at 60 mph, nope.

I admit the acceleration from 70-100 isn't great, but it's not bad. And for those who want more, bigger motors are coming. They will be able to be geared higher, moving the torque band up to higher speeds, and soon we'll have stupid acceleration through the entire stay-out-of-jail speed range.
I think that you’d get over it pretty quickly.

Also, I really don’t see how the electric vehicle future is in gigantic motors.
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Old 12-18-2019, 10:04 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Josh (PA) View Post
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...o-zl1-1le.html

Saw this listed while browsing the marketplace. Not sure if the price is decent or if it matches what you're looking for (I don't get all the Camaro letters and what they mean), but figured it wouldn't hurt to drop it here.
Thanks. The price range for the ZL1 1LEs seems to be low $50s to mid $60s, depending. While I'd love to have one, it's not the car for me and I haven't been paying too much attention

The ZL1 is the king of the 6th gen Camaro mountain with a supercharged LT4 V8 making 650/650.

I'm looking at the 1SS (maybe 2SS, which is basically the same with more convenience options), which is powered by the regular normally aspirated V8 making 455/455

The 1LE part is a package available on all Camaros that is primarily wheels and suspension. The parts differ depending on which engine is in the car and basically gets better and better the higher up you go.

The 4 cylinder and V6 versions get the suspension and wheels from the non-1LE regular V8 car, which is an upgrade but not really all that special (and for the turbo, I'm not sure it's really "better" in terms of performance because it changes the wheels form 18x8.5 all around to 20x8.5 up front and 20x9x5 in back).

The SS 1LE cars see their wheels go from that 20x8.5/20x9.5 to 20x10/20x11, very good magnetic shocks, bigger bars, and stiffer springs, plus a very trick eLSD.

The ZL1 version gets even better magnetic shocks and a better version of the eLSD.

All the 1LE cars also come with heavier duty cooling parts. The V8 ones come with Recaros and become optional in teh turbo and V6 cars. A performance data recorder (records straight ahead video with a lot of data overlays and is super useful in autocross situations) is optional for all 1LE cars (may be standard on ZL1, but not sure). There are also some aero bits on the V8 cars that vary depending on which one, and some cosmetic things (like black satin wrapped hoods) that are standard on all.
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:25 PM   #57
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$16,544 today.

In retrospect, I would have been better off selling the car to Carvana in September, buying a $4k beater, putting the rest into Tesla stock, selling that today and be way ahead.

Oh well. But that would have been dumb to try.

Pretty settled into plan of a 1SS 1LE. Decided I don't want the HPEB Mustang. Don't want to go electric without a last hurrah with a V8. Etc.

Still expecting late January/early February. Not sure if it will be a 2019 or 2020. I was wrong about the fancy rear view mirror...it's not available on 1LE cars.
So, yeah, that's definitely what I should have done. Incentives are shit and supply is more constrained than two years ago because of the strike...compounded further by an uptick in Camaro sales (Q4 were up 3.0% vs Q4 2018).

At this point, my guess is that it will be early February before I close anything and February incentives can't be much worse, so that may help.

I'm just ready to have all this done.
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Old 02-10-2020, 03:21 PM   #58
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At this point, my guess is that it will be early February before I close anything and February incentives can't be much worse, so that may help.

I'm just ready to have all this done.
Still not done. February Chevy to Consumer incentives are terrible, but their incentives to dealers may not be so bad. There's almost no info, though, so it's hard to suss out other than reading some tea leaves based on my conversations with dealers.

There definitely seems to be some kind of flex cash situation that may or may not be in combo with money on 19s...or specific cars. Some dealers are really aggressive on MY20 cars, but not on the 19s they've had in stock for 6+ months.

Altogether, it looks like I'll have to spend enough more than I had been expecting that I'm very much not happy. And it's to the point I'm resisting spending anything. It's weird.

I've also been looking for a used one, but used ones with PDR are really hard to find. The ones that have it all seem to be a dealers that like smoking crack because they're mostly asking more for them than the website prices on their news ones (19s and 20s). If I could find a used one with under 10k miles that won't quickly be in need of new tires and save myself $3k (or $4k if it'll need new tires soon), I'd jump in an instant.

Also, every time I do this, I remember how much difference there is between dealers and salespeople. Some really try to work with you to find a deal and some...don't.

But I really, really, really want this to be over.

And, FWIW, Carvana's offer to me today was $16,310, which is up about $1k from late January.
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Old 03-16-2020, 06:15 PM   #59
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An update...

I still have not bought a car. As posted above, it became clear I wasn't going to find the car I wanted at the price I wanted to pay. That took the wind out of my sails a bit. While my wife was "okay" with it, she wasn't supportive and that also made me uncomfortable. These were both balanced with the first scheduled event of the year approaching (this coming weekend). A few weeks ago, I had a long conversation with my wife that was intended to find a resolution on what to do with no surprises or discomfort for anyone.

In exchange for her support, I agreed to get rid of one of the driveway decorations and sell two of my guitars. The Miata left that weekend on a trailer owned by some friends that have a farm in Virginia where they grow NA Miatas.

The guitars... These are guitars that have only been out of their cases a handful of times in the past 20 years. My wife wants them gone because 1) I don't use them and 2) they take up space in the closet that she would like to use. And, to be honest, it was my idea to sell them.

To spare the story there, I'm about ready to list them on Reverb.com. Just need to take pics, finish the description of one of them, set asking prices and post. And it's really, really, really, fucking hard to do that. I've played them more in the last couple weeks than I have in 25 years and I'm really enjoying them. But I'll do it.

About 10 days ago, it became clear that I wasn't going to have a car for that first event. It wasn't the biggest problem in the world, however, and my codriver and I figured out an alternative for the event. In terms of what we "need," the next scheduled event where we would "need" the new car is in late May...so accepting that we wouldn't make the first event entirely took the time pressure off.

Then, last week as the reality of coronavirus started to hit, the SCCA decided to not cancel events, but to allow full refunds for that wanted to bail. So, we did the next day...just a couple hours before the SCCA canceled the event.

Also, at the beginning of March, the updated Chevy incentives were announced, and they sucked pretty hard, so between everything, I haven't been looking too hard for cars outside of looking for signs that dealers are getting desperate to sell.

And as of today, it sounds like new car purchases are tanking and most manufacturers are or are about to roll out some significant new incentives. Haven't heard anything specific for Camaros, but it it sounds like GM is very soon going to offer 0% (for up to 84 months? WTF?!) vs the 3.0% or so that was in my planning. Maybe some more money back or better manufacturer->dealer cash, too?

In the past week, I've had a growing feeling that the autocross season isn't going to amount to much. And the more that's grown, the less inclined I've been to spend money on anything for this season. While walking the dog last night, I came to the conclusion that if the SCCA canceled the season tomorrow, I'd probably be content continuing with the turbo until dealers started trying to move leftover 2020s...and that's far enough out in the future with so many unknowns about health, economy, elections, and more that society may all be burned down by then and autocross won't really matter. Meanwhile, the Carvana offer for my car (with slowly increasing mileage) has continued to creep up in recent weeks to $17,026 today.

I'm feeling kind of good at the moment for not having bought something already. As much as I want the car, making this switch right now feels less right than six weeks ago. Even if I did it, I have no where to drive the car, so I wouldn't even be enjoying the car for some time...yet paying for it. OTOH, one of the other GM incentives that may drop is no payments for the first 120 days.

I figure in a best case, the economy will take some hits in the next few months and new car sales will be problematic. OTOH, at some point, auto production will slow and there will be less product to move and maybe things wind up like the 2019s in early 2020. (Or worse?)

Anyway, I can enjoy the guitars a little longer now, I guess.
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Old 03-16-2020, 06:55 PM   #60
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Meanwhile, the Carvana offer for my car (with slowly increasing mileage) has continued to creep up in recent weeks to $17,026 today.

I'm feeling kind of good at the moment for not having bought something already. As much as I want the car, making this switch right now feels less right than six weeks ago. Even if I did it, I have no where to drive the car, so I wouldn't even be enjoying the car for some time...yet paying for it. OTOH, one of the other GM incentives that may drop is no payments for the first 120 days.

I figure in a best case, the economy will take some hits in the next few months and new car sales will be problematic.
Here go my wild guesses...

The carvana offer on your car will drop. It may not drop as much as new car $$$'s but it will.

If you have a spare car you can drive around, a month or two from now may be the time to go aggressive/contrarian and get the car you want for less. A year from now may be even better (though that's too far ahead). Is your job at risk? Probably not. Many people's living will be and the economy/lack of demand will reflect that.
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