Tesla Model S waffling - Page 128

robg · 10-06-2015, 02:37 PM

JST - thanks for the explanation. I'll have to do a bit more reading to understand "battery limited". My mental model is still battery = gas tank.

Zbb- that does sound pretty dumb. If it turns out to be true i imagine they'll quickly reverse course in the .1 upgrade.

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bren · 10-06-2015, 03:21 PM

Weren't we discussing this sort of thing at some point when the Model S first came out. Musk has always had a more "appliance" like view of his cars. Adding more "gee whiz" seems right up his alley.

JST · 10-06-2015, 04:05 PM

Think of the battery as the fuel system; it's both the gas tank and the fuel pump/fuel injector/carb.

Just as in a gas car, you can design an engine that is limited in power output by the fuel system. Put a 2 Barrel carb on a 460 V8 and you get a lot less power than with a 4 barrel. This analogy isn't perfect, but it gets the point across.

The 85 kWh battery has more cells than a 60 kWh battery. It not only has more capacity, it operates at a nominally higher voltage. That means it can push more power to the motor than the 60 can.

In fact, one (slightly counter intuitive) thing about EVs is that Tesla's are so fast because their batteries are so big. A lot of people have said "can't I get a P60, which would be awesome because it would be so much lighter."

Yes, it would be lighter...but it would also make less power.

ZBB · 10-06-2015, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

Think of the battery as the fuel system; it's both the gas tank and the fuel pump/fuel injector/carb.

Just as in a gas car, you can design an engine that is limited in power output by the fuel system. Put a 2 Barrel carb on a 460 V8 and you get a lot less power than with a 4 barrel. This analogy isn't perfect, but it gets the point across.

The 85 kWh battery has more cells than a 60 kWh battery. It not only has more capacity, it operates at a nominally higher voltage. That means it can push more power to the motor than the 60 can.

In fact, one (slightly counter intuitive) thing about EVs is that Tesla's are so fast because their batteries are so big. A lot of people have said "can't I get a P60, which would be awesome because it would be so much lighter."

Yes, it would be lighter...but it would also make less power.

Good analogy...

In practice the 60 is plenty fast, and the difference between a 60 and 85 is minimal. But a P85 (or P85D Ludicrous Mode) is crazy...

robg · 10-07-2015, 09:49 AM

JST- thanks! That makes sense.

This thread inspired me to procrastinate by reading the tesla forums (always good for a laugh given how worked up everyone gets).

So while we are on the topic of nitpicking their software I happened to read a complaint about phone/Bluetooth integration. Sounds like you can still only get the most basic music integration (skip forward and back)? Seems kind of crazy given that they don't have proper app integration (Pandora, etc) yet or support some of the enhanced features (playlists, etc). Even the most basic rental car has stuff like that these days. I'm sure some high end exotics still lack that stuff as well but given the highly tech savvy audience I'm really surprised.

That being said it was hilarious reading some of the excuses and works arounds.

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JST · 10-07-2015, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robg

JST- thanks! That makes sense.

This thread inspired me to procrastinate by reading the tesla forums (always good for a laugh given how worked up everyone gets).

So while we are on the topic of nitpicking their software I happened to read a complaint about phone/Bluetooth integration. Sounds like you can still only get the most basic music integration (skip forward and back)? Seems kind of crazy given that they don't have proper app integration (Pandora, etc) yet or support some of the enhanced features (playlists, etc). Even the most basic rental car has stuff like that these days. I'm sure some high end exotics still lack that stuff as well but given the highly tech savvy audience I'm really surprised.

That being said it was hilarious reading some of the excuses and works arounds.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, the iPhone integration is essentially non-existent--basically it will play over A2DP, and you can skip tracks, and it will show the track info, but that's it. I don't really notice it, since I just use the iPhone to generate playlists and so on, but I suppose it would be nice to have a more elaborate set of controls on the screen.

Given how blindingly awful my last experience with iPhone integration was (on the 2011 Mini), though, I am not counting on anyone to do smartphone stuff as well as Apple. And even Apple has fucked it up with the Apple Music/iTunes "integration."

robg · 10-07-2015, 11:31 AM

Interesting. I guess my experiences with car/phone integration have been pretty good (current BMW as well as ford, gm and Mazda rental cars). The Mazda even let me open and fully control Pandora fully over Bluetooth. Very nice.

The Audi A4 I had sucked however in that regard.

I know it's a small thing but I find that I really miss it when I drive a car that lacks full integration.

I suppose one workaround is to use "hey Siri" to summon a playlist or artist.

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JST · 10-07-2015, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robg

Interesting. I guess my experiences with car/phone integration have been pretty good (current BMW as well as ford, gm and Mazda rental cars). The Mazda even let me open and fully control Pandora fully over Bluetooth. Very nice.

The Audi A4 I had sucked however in that regard.

I know it's a small thing but I find that I really miss it when I drive a car that lacks full integration.

I suppose one workaround is to use "hey Siri" to summon a playlist or artist.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Funny you mention that. Hey Siri doesn't really work with the BT on the Tesla. The phone appears to keep an open link on the BT, so that it can listen for the "Hey Siri" command. The car interprets this as an open call, and mutes the stereo.

I'm not sure if this affects other cars (you'd think that it would), or if it has been fixed in 9.0.2; I turned Hey Siri off.

JST · 10-07-2015, 11:57 AM

Also, you want to talk about entitlement?

https://medium.com/@salsop/dear-elon...f-ca3d266882a4

Jesus. I would ban this guy from buying one of my cars.

bren · 10-07-2015, 01:00 PM

Quote:

It’s a computer, disguised as a beautiful car, just like I want.

Bingo.

10-07-2015, 11:31 AM	#1277
robg Carmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,243	Tesla Model S waffling Interesting. I guess my experiences with car/phone integration have been pretty good (current BMW as well as ford, gm and Mazda rental cars). The Mazda even let me open and fully control Pandora fully over Bluetooth. Very nice. The Audi A4 I had sucked however in that regard. I know it's a small thing but I find that I really miss it when I drive a car that lacks full integration. I suppose one workaround is to use "hey Siri" to summon a playlist or artist. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-06-2015, 02:37 PM	#1271
robg Carmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,243	JST - thanks for the explanation. I'll have to do a bit more reading to understand "battery limited". My mental model is still battery = gas tank. Zbb- that does sound pretty dumb. If it turns out to be true i imagine they'll quickly reverse course in the .1 upgrade. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-06-2015, 03:21 PM	#1272
bren lawn boy Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: e46m3, f25x3,C5 Z06, C4 Vette, 06 CTD Ram, and a trailer Location: Maryland Posts: 14,029	Weren't we discussing this sort of thing at some point when the Model S first came out. Musk has always had a more "appliance" like view of his cars. Adding more "gee whiz" seems right up his alley.

10-06-2015, 04:05 PM	#1273
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,611	Think of the battery as the fuel system; it's both the gas tank and the fuel pump/fuel injector/carb. Just as in a gas car, you can design an engine that is limited in power output by the fuel system. Put a 2 Barrel carb on a 460 V8 and you get a lot less power than with a 4 barrel. This analogy isn't perfect, but it gets the point across. The 85 kWh battery has more cells than a 60 kWh battery. It not only has more capacity, it operates at a nominally higher voltage. That means it can push more power to the motor than the 60 can. In fact, one (slightly counter intuitive) thing about EVs is that Tesla's are so fast because their batteries are so big. A lot of people have said "can't I get a P60, which would be awesome because it would be so much lighter." Yes, it would be lighter...but it would also make less power.

10-07-2015, 09:49 AM	#1275
robg Carmudgeon Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,243	JST- thanks! That makes sense. This thread inspired me to procrastinate by reading the tesla forums (always good for a laugh given how worked up everyone gets). So while we are on the topic of nitpicking their software I happened to read a complaint about phone/Bluetooth integration. Sounds like you can still only get the most basic music integration (skip forward and back)? Seems kind of crazy given that they don't have proper app integration (Pandora, etc) yet or support some of the enhanced features (playlists, etc). Even the most basic rental car has stuff like that these days. I'm sure some high end exotics still lack that stuff as well but given the highly tech savvy audience I'm really surprised. That being said it was hilarious reading some of the excuses and works arounds. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-07-2015, 11:57 AM	#1279
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,611	Also, you want to talk about entitlement? https://medium.com/@salsop/dear-elon...f-ca3d266882a4 Jesus. I would ban this guy from buying one of my cars.