Tesla Model S waffling

[SCA]

I saw this last night via my USA Today iPhone App.

Accident victim backs Tesla as Feds deepen probe

http://usat.ly/1hwsSv2

[JST]

Originally Posted by SCA

I saw this last night via my USA Today iPhone App.

Accident victim backs Tesla as Feds deepen probe

http://usat.ly/1hwsSv2

This is what I sent to various family members about it:

Originally Posted by JST

You've probably seen the news about fires in Teslas--there have now apparently been three instances where a Model S has been in a collision that caused the main battery pack to catch fire. Two of these were cars ran over trailer hitches or tow hooks in the road, and one was a high speed crash in Mexico where the car ended up going through a wall and taking out a fence.

As you might guess, I have been following this issue rather closely. At this point, despite the somewhat gleeful tone taken by some media outlets, I don't see a substantial cause for concern.

The incidents all appear to involve a large metallic object piercing the actual battery pack, which essentially shorts out the cells inside and can cause them to burn. Critically, none of these incidents involved a spontaneous fire--all were collisions.

The Tesla pack is composed of nearly 7000 lithium ion cells arranged in a series of 16 (I think) modules, each of which is isolated from the other. A fire in one is designed to be contained and not spread to the entire battery. That appears to have worked in every case to date.

Moreover, the pack is also designed to vent heat and flame forward, away from the passenger compartment, which appears to have also worked in every case to date.

It's also worth noting that these are fires, NOT explosions, and that they start slowly and give the driver plenty of warning. Finally, there have been A LOT of accidents involving the Tesla that don't involve fire--and it remains probably the safest car on the road today.

Here's the most recent owner talking about his incident:


Tesla Owner in Tennessee


And here, just for giggles, is a gallery of some of the other Model S crashes there have been that have not resulted in a fire. My favorite is the one that crashed through a building for some reason.


Gallery of people doing dumb things in their Teslas


In short, while it seems like the Tesla has a particular vulnerability to a particular type of incident, it's not clear to me that a regular car would be LESS vulnerable in these incidents, just that the damage might be different. Like, it might have been damage to your feet, rather than the battery.

[robg]

You make some good points JST. Especially the point about what migth have happened to a regular car and its driver if it encountered a "large metallic object' in the road. Seems quite possible that anything big enough to pierce the Tesla's reinforced underbody would surely have pierced the floor of a regular car.

It is kind of crazy that there have been 3 of these incidents so close together. That's some really back luck for Tesla. Even in the NYC area I can't remember the last time I saw or hit a metallic object in the road. Car-eating potholes yes, but large road debris no.

[Plaz]

Originally Posted by SCA

I saw this last night via my USA Today iPhone App.

Accident victim backs Tesla as Feds deepen probe

http://usat.ly/1hwsSv2

Funny headline to those of us with a filthy mind.

[JST]

Originally Posted by robg

You make some good points JST. Especially the point about what migth have happened to a regular car and its driver if it encountered a "large metallic object' in the road. Seems quite possible that anything big enough to pierce the Tesla's reinforced underbody would surely have pierced the floor of a regular car.

It is kind of crazy that there have been 3 of these incidents so close together. That's some really back luck for Tesla. Even in the NYC area I can't remember the last time I saw or hit a metallic object in the road. Car-eating potholes yes, but large road debris no.

I've been driving for 25 years and have never had anything remotely similar happen, so it's really hard for me to judge. This commenter on Jalopnik had something like it occur in a regular car:

Originally Posted by Jowens

I had an identical thing happen to me about 15 years ago while driving with my mom in her 1992 Mazda 929 (Nice cars BTW, whatever happened to them?)

It was a significant enough impact that both me and my mom hit our heads on the roof, the engine stopped, and every warning light on the dash lit up simultaneously. The hitch punctured both the crankcase and the transmission and the car left a foot wide trail of oil and ATF that led from the point of impact to where the tow truck would later pick us up.

There was no fire, but car was totaled event though the body was still pristine. It would've been an ideal LS1 swap candidate if LS1 swaps were a thing back then.

[Plaz]

Originally Posted by robg

You make some good points JST. Especially the point about what migth have happened to a regular car and its driver if it encountered a "large metallic object' in the road. Seems quite possible that anything big enough to pierce the Tesla's reinforced underbody would surely have pierced the floor of a regular car.

It is kind of crazy that there have been 3 of these incidents so close together. That's some really back luck for Tesla. Even in the NYC area I can't remember the last time I saw or hit a metallic object in the road. Car-eating potholes yes, but large road debris no.

Large road debris is what dealt the first major blow to my MINI. Basically, a huge rock-shaped chunk of cement or concrete in the middle of the NJ Turnpike. I suspect it was a piece of Jersey Barrier that had broken off in someone else's collision. Either that or it had fallen out of a construction/demolition debris hauler.

[ZBB]

JST makes some good points -- similar to my thoughts after the first fire.

The only thing worth adding is that at least the first of the 3 cars was equipped with air suspension, which lowers the car at speed. If the 3rd car also had air suspension, I'm wondering if the lower ride heigh contributed to the impact -- basically less clearance made it "easier" for these objects to touch the underside of the car and penetrate. (I'm going to ignore the 2nd one -- from the crash pics, it appears the car got airborne due to extremely high speed and punctured the battery either when landing or crashing through a concrete block wall).

I'm curious since my car does not have air suspension -- so has fixed ride height. I've seen a Tesla parked with the air suspension set to low -- and there's a good 2 inches less clearance...

[3LOU5]

I have two road debris stories:

I had an assignment in Oakland, CA and was on the I-880 doing about 60 mph or so. My exit was coming up, so I flipped my signal, looked in the rear view mirror and then looked over my right shoulder at my right rear blind spot prior to changing lanes. As I looked forward again, I saw a HUGE engine block on my lane and swerved just in time to avoid it. It would have REALLY ruined my day (and my engine, trans, diff, etc.) if I had smacked it dead on.



There was a story my friend in a Level I trauma hospital told me about a traveler who ran over a pretty big road debris while he was traveling at a high rate of speed on I-80 AT NIGHT. Of course, he didn't see it until it was too late, and the impact was so powerful that it went through the floor board. The debris (or the floorboard sheet metal, don't know which) went up and cut one of the guy's femoral arteries. The femoral artery is one of the biggest in the human body, and supplies blood to the lower leg. It has A LOT of pressure (I have seen one cut, and has enough pressure to make blood spurt a 12-inches away from the body).

Needless to say, the traveler bled out and died in route to the hospital. He never had a chance.

Whenever I drive, I look out for debris. And if I have time and an area to safely pull over, I will take the debris out of the way. To me, that's just common road courtesy.

[JST]

Originally Posted by 3LOU5

I have two road debris stories:

I had an assignment in Oakland, CA and was on the I-880 doing about 60 mph or so. My exit was coming up, so I flipped my signal, looked in the rear view mirror and then looked over my right shoulder at my right rear blind spot prior to changing lanes. As I looked forward again, I saw a HUGE engine block on my lane and swerved just in time to avoid it. It would have REALLY ruined my day (and my engine, trans, diff, etc.) if I had smacked it dead on.



There was a story my friend in a Level I trauma hospital told me about a traveler who ran over a pretty big road debris while he was traveling at a high rate of speed on I-80 AT NIGHT. Of course, he didn't see it until it was too late, and the impact was so powerful that it went through the floor board. The debris (or the floorboard sheet metal, don't know which) went up and cut one of the guy's femoral arteries. The femoral artery is one of the biggest in the human body, and supplies blood to the lower leg. It has A LOT of pressure (I have seen one cut, and has enough pressure to make blood spurt a 12-inches away from the body).

Needless to say, the traveler bled out and died in route to the hospital. He never had a chance.

Whenever I drive, I look out for debris. And if I have time and an area to safely pull over, I will take the debris out of the way. To me, that's just common road courtesy.

Holy fuck. Yeah, having that big battery between your feet and the pavement doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

[robg]

Originally Posted by JST

Holy fuck. Yeah, having that big battery between your feet and the pavement doesn't sound so bad now, does it?

Yeah that's what I'm thinking!!