Tesla Model ≡ Thread

[JST]

BMW charging annually for *carplay* is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

[rumatt]

They do what!?!?


Regarding the Tesla cost to own... The gas savings will help a little but... Although I'm convinced the increased tire cost (heavy car with tons of torque) will eat that up, and more.

[SARAFIL]

Originally Posted by rumatt

They do what!?!?


Regarding the Tesla cost to own... The gas savings will help a little but... Although I'm convinced the increased tire cost (heavy car with tons of torque) will eat that up, and more.

They used to sell it as an option (forget how much but let’s say $350) and just switch to a model where it’s free for a year and then an annual fee thereafter.

Interestingly enough, they are exploring this for other items. I get asked to take product surveys every few months and last time it was asking about my interest in various plans for driver assistance features (self parking, self driving, lane change etc.) - basically the Tesla approach of include the hardware but charge you to activate and use it. I gave pretty negative feedback and saw others online w similar opinions.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by SARAFIL

They used to sell it as an option (forget how much but let’s say $350) and just switch to a model where it’s free for a year and then an annual fee thereafter.

Interestingly enough, they are exploring this for other items. I get asked to take product surveys every few months and last time it was asking about my interest in various plans for driver assistance features (self parking, self driving, lane change etc.) - basically the Tesla approach of include the hardware but charge you to activate and use it. I gave pretty negative feedback and saw others online w similar opinions.

I paid for CarPlay, so I hope they don’t come back at me trying to charge for it.

[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by SARAFIL

..- basically the Tesla approach of include the hardware but charge you to activate and use it. ,,,.

I like that so I can be cheap on options but change my mind later

>>>

Also I am not saying other companies tech will necessarily be better but the whole industry will improve more rapidly because of competition. Good thing in the long run.

[JST]

Originally Posted by Jeff_DML

I like that so I can be cheap on options but change my mind later

>>>

Also I am not saying other companies tech will necessarily be better but the whole industry will improve more rapidly because of competition. Good thing in the long run.

True, but I thought Dan Neil's piece on the iPace in the WSJ made an interesting point: The new Jaguar electric SUV has good stats, but it has to use a 90 kwh battery to do what the Model X can do with a 75 kwh battery. And the Model X is still (basically) second gen Tesla tech. It doesn't use the new stuff in the Model 3.

Neil's point was that we've long assumed that as soon as the big carmakers jump in the game, they'd be able to catch up to Tesla pretty quickly. That's probably not true, it turns out.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/2019-ja...els-1537538128

[rumatt]

There's also the aspect that if I love the car the way it is, then I don't really care where the market goes. During the 15 year's I've owned my E46, the automotive industry did not innovate anything that was of interest to me. I could easily see the same happening with electric vehicles. They'll just get more catered to the masses, not better in any way I care about.

I think the biggest question, and financial risk for me, is whether I love the car after driving it for a while. If it goes the way of the E46 and I drive the wheels off it, it'll have been money well spent (albeit a lot of money). If it goes the path of the Cayman, I'll end up losing what.. $20-25k on my gamble?

I hope I like it.

[robg]

Originally Posted by ZBB

I had my Model S for just over 5 years and 3 months. I put about 93,500 miles on it. I sold it to Carmax for 36% of what I paid for it (after the tax credit). That’s actually a pretty decent residual for that old of a car with high mileage (almost 18k per year).

As for the tech on it, I agree with JST. It wasn’t particularly outdated, and was still receiving software updates from Tesla on a regular basis (I averaged an update about once a month over the 5 years) - even adding new features this year (completely new Nav system and the Easy Entry option). Tesla did add hardware features to new cars (all the autopilot stuff), and did upgrades (seats in particular) that would have been nice. But I bought what was avail in 2013 - and it was the best car I ever had.

My battery was showing about 10% degradation when I sold it. It was also the smaller 60kWh battery, so 93k miles equates to about 460 charge cycles (JST’s 43k miles on the 85kWh battery equates to only 185 cycles). But even with 10% less range, we still did road trips and we didn’t have any real range issues. For the Model 3, the same mileage equates to only ~300 cycles — so I’d expect less degradation. Plus it has a starting range of 310 miles, so a little degradation has less impact than it did on my S, which really didn’t impact my ability to use the car.

It’s great that other automakers are now bringing out competing cars. But why do you assume their tech will be better? Tesla has over a decade head start over them in the core EV tech, and builds their batteries and motors in-house. The competitors have more experience with manufacturing, but still think like legacy automakers. I doubt any of them will offer over the air software updates, nor will the add new features to the car over time (software features).

As for the data plan... I’ll pay it when Tesla makes me. The Model S was supposed to have a paid data plan after 4 years (or Jan 2018 for those that bought prior to the paid data announcement). Jan 2018 came and went and I never had to pay for data. But $100 per year is not a big deal to keep the “upgrade” features like traffic aware nav and audio streaming. Hell, BMW will now charge $80 per year after the first year to keep CarPlay active, and connected data plans are becoming more common, so it’s not like this is unique to Tesla...

Some (maybe even most) legacy automakers are already doing OTA updates. I-Pace is one of them for example. Most keep quiet about that capability because, as I understand it, dealers are not fond of it (they want to be paid warranty rates to do the updates). That being said, I think Tesla may still have the greatest breadth in terms of they can update with OTA (for example, I doubt anyone else updates ABS controller firmware OTA as Tesla did following the CR report).
https://www.slashgear.com/2019-jagua...know-03521850/

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

True, but I thought Dan Neil's piece on the iPace in the WSJ made an interesting point: The new Jaguar electric SUV has good stats, but it has to use a 90 kwh battery to do what the Model X can do with a 75 kwh battery. And the Model X is still (basically) second gen Tesla tech. It doesn't use the new stuff in the Model 3.

Neil's point was that we've long assumed that as soon as the big carmakers jump in the game, they'd be able to catch up to Tesla pretty quickly. That's probably not true, it turns out.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/2019-ja...els-1537538128

Perhaps the headline should have been "British Car Manufacturer Doesn't Get Electrics Quite Right"

The world would have been shocked.

[John V]

Originally Posted by JST

True, but I thought Dan Neil's piece on the iPace in the WSJ made an interesting point: The new Jaguar electric SUV has good stats, but it has to use a 90 kwh battery to do what the Model X can do with a 75 kwh battery. And the Model X is still (basically) second gen Tesla tech. It doesn't use the new stuff in the Model 3.

Neil's point was that we've long assumed that as soon as the big carmakers jump in the game, they'd be able to catch up to Tesla pretty quickly. That's probably not true, it turns out.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/2019-ja...els-1537538128

We buy cars based on more than just the tech. There is a lot about Tesla that is, when compared to order automakers, pretty half-baked.