F-150 Lightning

JST · 05-19-2021, 10:58 PM

So a little while ago we had an argument/exchange about whether Tesla still had an advantage in building EVs. I still think they do...but I think that advantage will end in early 2022 when the F-150 debuts.

The specs on this thing are really insane. I mean, battery capacity, AWD, range, all of those are within roughly expected values, although 230 miles of range from the base battery is a little more than I thought it would have. 0-60 in 4.4 seconds is neat if sort of goofy for a truck, and the 80 amp home charger that's included is nice.

But what really does it are the ancillary features, like being able to power your tools or your house and having a giant 400L frunk that suddenly gives your pickup plenty of locked, weatherproof storage in addition to the bed. It's pretty obvious that the people that designed this truck are people that design trucks, in other words.

Oh, and the price.

When they said the base price, I was expecting 60 or 80. Not 40. And while 40K gets you a short range work truck, lots of people are going to want short range work trucks.

More importantly, the 50K XLT and even the 90K Platinum top-of-range are still what I would call pretty decent deals, especially given the numbers people like Rivian are throwing around.

I'm still concerned about the lack of a charging network, but I'm pretty convinced that the Lightning is going to completely redefine the American automotive market.

Now the only question is, sure it can tow 10,000 lbs, but how far?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...pecs-revealed/

SARAFIL · 05-19-2021, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

So a little while ago we had an argument/exchange about whether Tesla still had an advantage in building EVs. I still think they do...but I think that advantage will end in early 2022 when the F-150 debuts.

The specs on this thing are really insane. I mean, battery capacity, AWD, range, all of those are within roughly expected values, although 230 miles of range from the base battery is a little more than I thought it would have. 0-60 in 4.4 seconds is neat if sort of goofy for a truck, and the 80 amp home charger that's included is nice.

But what really does it are the ancillary features, like being able to power your tools or your house and having a giant 400L frunk that suddenly gives your pickup plenty of locked, weatherproof storage in addition to the bed. It's pretty obvious that the people that designed this truck are people that design trucks, in other words.

Oh, and the price.

When they said the base price, I was expecting 60 or 80. Not 40. And while 40K gets you a short range work truck, lots of people are going to want short range work trucks.

More importantly, the 50K XLT and even the 90K Platinum top-of-range are still what I would call pretty decent deals, especially given the numbers people like Rivian are throwing around.

I'm still concerned about the lack of a charging network, but I'm pretty convinced that the Lightning is going to completely redefine the American automotive market.

Now the only question is, sure it can tow 10,000 lbs, but how far?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...pecs-revealed/

I think the commercial use case here could be huge and transformational. It’s like the old “you can’t get fired for buying IBM” concept. If you manage commercial fleets, you’re not taking a really big risk to buy some of these vs. a gas F150. The $40k entry level price point isn’t materially higher than what a similar spec crew cab 4x4 V6 XL trim would sell for. It’s also the same platform & key measurements as regular F150 so a lot of the accessories & add ons probably interchangeable. It has all the things companies have grown to rely on & appreciate about an F150 plus some really cool new features like that huge frunk.

I have zero need for a truck but I think this is pretty impressive after seeing the specs, pics & pricing info.

*clyde* · 05-20-2021, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

So a little while ago we had an argument/exchange about whether Tesla still had an advantage in building EVs. I still think they do...but I think that advantage will end in early 2022 when the F-150 debuts.

The Mach E told us this F150 was coming. I did not think it would be so soon.

They are going to sell all the F150 Lightnings they can build. Will be interesting to see how GM's Ultium based 1500-like truck compares. The Hummer EV suggests the specs will be there, but it would be so GM to Aztek the truck paradigm in a ham fisted attempt to be more like Tesla, so I guess we have to wait to find that out.

John V · 05-20-2021, 06:18 AM

It won't be useful for towing, beyond trips in town. But most people don't tow with F150s.

Given how expensive trucks are, they are gonna sell a fuck ton of these things. It also looks good unlike the monstrosity Tesla designed.

wdc330i · 05-20-2021, 06:54 AM

This would be the perfect vehicle to buy my son, were I to buy him a pricey new vehicle that’s complementary to my mini-fleet.

...but, of course, I won’t.

kognito · 05-20-2021, 08:47 AM

Ford has rolled out something people will buy. The frunk is very interesting to me.

Elon rolled out something only his cult will buy.

Two days ago, Carvana offered me 850 less than I paid for my 2017 GMC 1/2 ton. It is truly crazy what a few year old pickup truck is worth

JST · 05-20-2021, 09:02 AM

I've been thinking a bit recently about the Lincoln Blackwood, the Lincoln Mark LT, and the King Ranch/Platinum trims of the F-150.

The first two were obviously miserable failures, the Mark LT somewhat less than the Blackwood (because it could still do truck things), but neither lasted very long.

Instead, Ford transitioned to building equally luxe, equally high-margin vehicles on the F-150 frame...but just calling them F-150s. There is clearly a demographic in the US (and probably elsewhere) that wants a luxury car but also wants to be able to use it (or pretend to use it) as a truck...and doesn't want the baggage of a "luxury" brand.

The Lightning directly addresses that demographic, and it does so not just by electrifying the F-150, but by providing appealing features that the gas truck cannot. In that sense, I think it's a more innovative model than anything since the OG Model S (which also, at least at first, offered things like massive cargo and jump seats that simply didn't exist on gas cars).

Rivian launches in the next couple of months; they'll be trying to position themselves as the "Tesla of trucks," and I suspect they'll sell reasonably well. But if I were Rivian I'd be sweating at the idea of the Lightning Platinum.

zach · 05-20-2021, 09:03 AM

I agree that the lightning is a total game changer. I like it.

ZBB · 05-20-2021, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL

I think the commercial use case here could be huge and transformational. It’s like the old “you can’t get fired for buying IBM” concept. If you manage commercial fleets, you’re not taking a really big risk to buy some of these vs. a gas F150. The $40k entry level price point isn’t materially higher than what a similar spec crew cab 4x4 V6 XL trim would sell for. It’s also the same platform & key measurements as regular F150 so a lot of the accessories & add ons probably interchangeable. It has all the things companies have grown to rely on & appreciate about an F150 plus some really cool new features like that huge frunk.

I have zero need for a truck but I think this is pretty impressive after seeing the specs, pics & pricing info.

The problem for commercial fleets is the price still isn't low enough. This is much better than other options (especially considering the base price of Ford's own electric Transit that goes on sale this fall).

The type of base pickup that is leased for a commercial fleet typically has a cap cost under $30k (can be well under...) for a comparable 4WD / crew cab spec. Upfitting is also common (tool chests, storage racks, welding tank mounts, plating on the tailgate so it can be used as a workbench, etc) and that should be comparable from a cost perspective -- but likely will significantly impact range (mostly impact on aerodynamics). The bigger battery might be needed for heavily upfitted trucks...

With the current $7500 rebate avail, it does get the price lower, and hopefully negotiated discounts will hold. If so, that gets this much closer than anything else. But I'm not sure how many are still avail for Ford -- their PHEV offerings ate into the 200k deliveries a bit, and the Mach-E could mean not many avail for the Lightning by next year...

But we'll be having some discussions with Ford...

John V · 05-20-2021, 10:33 AM

Fleet maintenance cost plus fuel cost should be way lower than gas trucks and would need to be factored in.

05-19-2021, 10:58 PM	#1
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,611	F-150 Lightning So a little while ago we had an argument/exchange about whether Tesla still had an advantage in building EVs. I still think they do...but I think that advantage will end in early 2022 when the F-150 debuts. The specs on this thing are really insane. I mean, battery capacity, AWD, range, all of those are within roughly expected values, although 230 miles of range from the base battery is a little more than I thought it would have. 0-60 in 4.4 seconds is neat if sort of goofy for a truck, and the 80 amp home charger that's included is nice. But what really does it are the ancillary features, like being able to power your tools or your house and having a giant 400L frunk that suddenly gives your pickup plenty of locked, weatherproof storage in addition to the bed. It's pretty obvious that the people that designed this truck are people that design trucks, in other words. Oh, and the price. When they said the base price, I was expecting 60 or 80. Not 40. And while 40K gets you a short range work truck, lots of people are going to want short range work trucks. More importantly, the 50K XLT and even the 90K Platinum top-of-range are still what I would call pretty decent deals, especially given the numbers people like Rivian are throwing around. I'm still concerned about the lack of a charging network, but I'm pretty convinced that the Lightning is going to completely redefine the American automotive market. Now the only question is, sure it can tow 10,000 lbs, but how far? https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...pecs-revealed/

05-20-2021, 08:47 AM	#6
kognito older fart than ZBB Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: On the road again Posts: 8,900	Ford has rolled out something people will buy. The frunk is very interesting to me. Elon rolled out something only his cult will buy. Two days ago, Carvana offered me 850 less than I paid for my 2017 GMC 1/2 ton. It is truly crazy what a few year old pickup truck is worth __________________ 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 SLE 2020 Fusion Titanium

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05-20-2021, 06:18 AM	#4
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wdc330i dogged Join Date: Dec 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: '22 M440 xDrive GC Posts: 13,299	This would be the perfect vehicle to buy my son, were I to buy him a pricey new vehicle that’s complementary to my mini-fleet. ...but, of course, I won’t.

05-20-2021, 09:02 AM	#7
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,611	I've been thinking a bit recently about the Lincoln Blackwood, the Lincoln Mark LT, and the King Ranch/Platinum trims of the F-150. The first two were obviously miserable failures, the Mark LT somewhat less than the Blackwood (because it could still do truck things), but neither lasted very long. Instead, Ford transitioned to building equally luxe, equally high-margin vehicles on the F-150 frame...but just calling them F-150s. There is clearly a demographic in the US (and probably elsewhere) that wants a luxury car but also wants to be able to use it (or pretend to use it) as a truck...and doesn't want the baggage of a "luxury" brand. The Lightning directly addresses that demographic, and it does so not just by electrifying the F-150, but by providing appealing features that the gas truck cannot. In that sense, I think it's a more innovative model than anything since the OG Model S (which also, at least at first, offered things like massive cargo and jump seats that simply didn't exist on gas cars). Rivian launches in the next couple of months; they'll be trying to position themselves as the "Tesla of trucks," and I suspect they'll sell reasonably well. But if I were Rivian I'd be sweating at the idea of the Lightning Platinum.

05-20-2021, 09:03 AM	#8
zach swinging for the fences Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: 987, X7 M60i, e36 M3 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 5,037	I agree that the lightning is a total game changer. I like it.

05-20-2021, 10:33 AM	#10
John V No more BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Ram, MS3, CX-5, RX-8 Location: Glenwood, MD Posts: 14,753	Fleet maintenance cost plus fuel cost should be way lower than gas trucks and would need to be factored in.