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Old 03-18-2019, 07:47 PM   #51
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I think the Tesla first mover advantage is gone.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:04 PM   #52
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I know you and I disagree. That’s why this is so fun.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:17 PM   #53
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I mean...sure? Once VW builds a car that is roughly similar to the tech specs of a Tesla for a similar price and builds a similar network, Tesla’s first mover advantage will be gone.

The point is, when is that going to happen? It’s not going to be in 2 years.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:10 PM   #54
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I know you and I disagree. That’s why this is so fun.
We're not disagreeing, we're failing to communicate. I was hoping you'd answer the questions in that post.

But I guess not. I'll move on.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:08 PM   #55
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I mean...sure? Once VW builds a car that is roughly similar to the tech specs of a Tesla for a similar price and builds a similar network, Tesla’s first mover advantage will be gone.



The point is, when is that going to happen? It’s not going to be in 2 years.


If the Model S buyers are anything like people here, I also bet a bunch of S drivers will defect to cars like the Taycan and E-Tron GT. Nothing to do with superiority. I think it has to do more with “trying something new”.
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Old 03-19-2019, 03:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JST View Post
I mean...sure? Once VW builds a car that is roughly similar to the tech specs of a Tesla for a similar price and builds a similar network, Tesla’s first mover advantage will be gone.



The point is, when is that going to happen? It’s not going to be in 2 years.


I agree that if you want an electric car that can almost replace an ICE car Tesla is still the only game in town until there is a comparable alternative fast charging network.

But the best use case for an EV is still a predictable commute each day while charging at home each night. For that, the newcomers will represent a viable alternative to tesla - especially in the S and X price range where buyers likely have multiple cars (including ICE ones) and don’t need to use their EV for road trips.

If you only have 1 car and it’s an EV, you probably want it to be a Tesla. I personally think that the amount of bs you have to put up with re Tesla and it’s products outweighs the advantages of EV driving.
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:54 AM   #57
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I just spent a couple days in Oslo for work — with a specific focus on EVs. Attended part of the Nordic EV Summit, and had a chance to talk with the city of Oslo and a company that moved 100 sales reps to EVs last year.

While Norway is a small country (5 million...), what they have done to incentivize moving to an EV focused car infrastructure is amazing. Lots to learn (and they have had A recent visit from NYC.)

I probably should start another thread with to discuss further, but here’s a few teasers:
- Battery EVs made up 30% of new car sales in 2018. Plug-in Hybrids were another 20%
- BEVs are often less expensive than comparable diesel cars (due to taxes based on co2 output — an EV has no tax, and taxes get bigger the more a car pollutes)
- there has been a heavy investment in charging infrastructure, with free parking and/or charging (although they are starting to introduce charging fees now). I saw one city street that easily had 20 chargers in a row...
- they changed the laws to require apartment associations to allow chargers upon request (and put the burden on the apartment association to prove why it can’t be allowed). They also subsidize the cost to install electric infrastructure in apartment buildings for charging - 20%, although that does not include the box itself (which the car owner would install). That has encouraged apartments to pre-wire their parking areas so all the renter needs to do is get a wall box/charger and wire it in)...

Anyway... I’ll post separately when I get a chance...
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:40 AM   #58
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Heard something funny yesterday on CNBC, and maybe this thread title should be changed, but . . .

Panel guests were calling this new SUV the Model WHY
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Old 03-29-2019, 07:54 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by ZBB View Post
I just spent a couple days in Oslo for work — with a specific focus on EVs. Attended part of the Nordic EV Summit, and had a chance to talk with the city of Oslo and a company that moved 100 sales reps to EVs last year.

While Norway is a small country (5 million...), what they have done to incentivize moving to an EV focused car infrastructure is amazing. Lots to learn (and they have had A recent visit from NYC.)

I probably should start another thread with to discuss further, but here’s a few teasers:
- Battery EVs made up 30% of new car sales in 2018. Plug-in Hybrids were another 20%
- BEVs are often less expensive than comparable diesel cars (due to taxes based on co2 output — an EV has no tax, and taxes get bigger the more a car pollutes)
- there has been a heavy investment in charging infrastructure, with free parking and/or charging (although they are starting to introduce charging fees now). I saw one city street that easily had 20 chargers in a row...
- they changed the laws to require apartment associations to allow chargers upon request (and put the burden on the apartment association to prove why it can’t be allowed). They also subsidize the cost to install electric infrastructure in apartment buildings for charging - 20%, although that does not include the box itself (which the car owner would install). That has encouraged apartments to pre-wire their parking areas so all the renter needs to do is get a wall box/charger and wire it in)...

Anyway... I’ll post separately when I get a chance...


Please do.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:23 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by robg View Post
Hard to tell yet how well VWs penance network is going to compete. If it weren’t for that I’d get an etron all day over this if I were in the market.
Not well, it seems.

"Correcting Audi: Tesla Model 3 Charges Over 2 Times Faster Than Audi e-tron"

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/17...n-audi-e-tron/

Quote:
Matthew Mostafaei, Audi’s manager for e-tron, presented data taken from Twitter during the New York Auto Show without naming the source. (That’s plagiarism.) The data was misrepresented by plotting it on a different axis. (That’s a falsification.) He then used the data to show the e-tron’s charging superiority over the Model 3, when it actually proves the opposite. (That’s deception.) You may call this good marketing. I call it a brazen lie. At best, it is a highly misleading accident.

[...]



Here is what you should take away from this article: do not trust anything published by the Volkswagen Group. After all the coverups from the past few years, it comes as no surprise that Audi keeps deceiving the public with falsified data and twisted arguments. Some companies never learn. I just hope customers finally will.

Last edited by rumatt; 05-20-2019 at 08:41 AM.
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