6 series --> you sure it's not against the 911?

[lemming]

i saw the stickers (was at the dealer again today).

$75k for the 645Ci and $80k for the 645Ci convertible.

it seems as though it's right in the thick of the segment. 911 buyers these days (for the MOST part) are just a bunch of fair weather tiptronic driving fools, anyway.

[TD]

I completely think it's primary competitor is the 911. And I cannot imagine anyone selecting the 645Ci over the 911 for the same money.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by TD

I completely think it's primary competitor is the 911. And I cannot imagine anyone selecting the 645Ci over the 911 for the same money.

when i saw the MSRP, then i realized it will definitely be cross-shopped with a 996 911, and because that car has a "racing" heritage, looks cleaner (while slightly subjective, likely accurate) and is more likely the car that people have always dreamed of owning (not a lot of people grow up dreaming that they'll drive a BMW someday) --i think the 645 loses based on those wonderful intangibles everyone talks about.

i mean, here is what i perceive to be the competition:

1. jaguar XKR
2. CLK500 and/or AMB CLK55
3. porsche 911
4. cadillac XLR
5. BMW E60 M5

--since the E60 M5 will not be shipped with a manual, i see no compelling reason for someone to buy a 645Ci when they can have their cake and eat it, also, in the form of the inbound M5.

[SCA]

For the money I rather have 911 or even a used E39 M5.

[FC]

Originally Posted by pDz

when i saw the MSRP, then i realized it will definitely be cross-shopped with a 996 911, and because that car has a "racing" heritage, looks cleaner (while slightly subjective, likely accurate) and is more likely the car that people have always dreamed of owning (not a lot of people grow up dreaming that they'll drive a BMW someday) --i think the 645 loses based on those wonderful intangibles everyone talks about.

i mean, here is what i perceive to be the competition:

1. jaguar XKR
2. CLK500 and/or AMB CLK55
3. porsche 911
4. cadillac XLR
5. BMW E60 M5

--since the E60 M5 will not be shipped with a manual, i see no compelling reason for someone to buy a 645Ci when they can have their cake and eat it, also, in the form of the inbound M5.

Of those, I'd still take a 996 unless I needed a sedan or the AMG if I needed a luxo-coupe.

At 80K for the Convertible, I'd just put up a few more $$ and get an SL500.

[JST]

As much as I dislike the new 6 (and I really, really do), I think you guys are underestimating the market a bit.

Compared to each of the cars that you mention, the 6 has a value proposition. It may not be compelling to you, but I'm sure that there are some folks out there for whom the 6 fits the bill in a way that none of the other cars do.

E.g.:

1. jaguar XKR--645 can be had with a 6 speed or SMG--XKR is auto only. XKR is built on an ancient platform, and while still a gorgeous car, is getting a bit long in tooth. I'm sure that the 6 will be a nicer driver.

2. CLK500 and/or AMB CLK55--These are probably the closest, but these "tweener" Mercedes are more traditionally compared to the M3. They also can't be had with a stick.

3. porsche 911--The 645 offers a lot more space; if you occasionally need to carry 3 adults, a 6 will work, but a 911 really won't. As bad as the BMW stigma is, the Porsche stigma is worse.

4. cadillac XLR--Only two seats, no stick, unknown suburban snob factor. Will this car be parked in front of the restaurant by the valets? The 6 probably will.

5. BMW E60 M5--Four doors. Some people, for reasons known only to Zeus, like 2 doors. If that weren't true, BMW wouldn't sell any 330/325Cis.

Honestly, as I've said before, the closest competitor I see to the 645 is the M3, and as (maybe pdz) pointed out, the M3 has a younger image than the 6.

For the older, wealthier enthusiast who (inexplicably) likes the 6er styling and wants to assert his midlife crisis by ordering a coupe, the 6 is a good choice. It fills a nice that is presently occupied only by something much more expensive (e.g., the AM DB7 and DB9) or much cheaper (the GTO, the 330).

But it sure is ugly.

[lemming]

i was shocked at how much the 6 series cost and that is a lot of money to ask someone to spend on something with somewhat incongruous styling.

i agree that the whole 2 door thing is a mystery --but here, let me enter in antoher exmaple:

the maserati coupe.

it's about $85-90k.

that isn't a lot more expensive, but if you had the money, which one would you buy? especially since the maso goes 0-60 in 4.7 seconds and has the heart of a 360 in it?

[JST]

Originally Posted by pDz

i was shocked at how much the 6 series cost and that is a lot of money to ask someone to spend on something with somewhat incongruous styling.

i agree that the whole 2 door thing is a mystery --but here, let me enter in antoher exmaple:

the maserati coupe.

it's about $85-90k.

that isn't a lot more expensive, but if you had the money, which one would you buy? especially since the maso goes 0-60 in 4.7 seconds and has the heart of a 360 in it?

If it were my third car? The Maserati. If I had to rely on it to get me to work every day? Probably the BMW.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by JST

If it were my third car? The Maserati. If I had to rely on it to get me to work every day? Probably the BMW.

i guess i'd like to know ho wmany 645's they expect to sell plus the demographic that they're targeting.

my guess is that it's damn affluent and that this sort of car is the family 'halo' car. in that situation, i see someone who has a 3 or 5 as the commuter and this sort of car as the "one upmanship" car. that amount of money for a 2 seater is really, really high. i mean, the demographic for the 7 series is absurdly high in terms of wealth, and i would guess the 6 dovetails into that stratosphere.

which is why i thought something more exotic for not much more money and badge presence.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by JST

If it were my third car? The Maserati. If I had to rely on it to get me to work every day? Probably the BMW.