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Old 07-16-2019, 03:29 PM   #21
Josh (PA)
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Focus ST? As lightly used as you could find (comes in under $20k)? No clue what used focus RS goes for (edit you can get a 2018 w/ less than 20k miles in your price range).

Mini also checks all the boxes, but I'm sure there will be reliability comments
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Last edited by Josh (PA); 07-16-2019 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:39 PM   #22
wdc330i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V View Post
4) Reliable (i.e. no BMWs)

Irritatingly I keep coming back to the GTI and the Tesla.
Are GTIs and Teslas really more reliable than BMWs?

Edit: Not Tesla on JD Power's most dependable list (most recent survey is 2018 and seems to be mostly 2015 cars). BMW is toward the top; VW somewhat lower down:

https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings.../Manufacturers

Ah, here's 2019 (with 2016 models)--same deal. BMW rated higher. https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings.../Manufacturers
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:28 PM   #23
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Vehicular annoyance

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc330i View Post
Are GTIs and Teslas really more reliable than BMWs?

Edit: Not Tesla on JD Power's most dependable list (most recent survey is 2018 and seems to be mostly 2015 cars). BMW is toward the top; VW somewhat lower down:

https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings.../Manufacturers

Ah, here's 2019 (with 2016 models)--same deal. BMW rated higher. https://www.jdpower.com/Cars/Ratings.../Manufacturers


Yeah from what I’ve seen bmw has been near the top for a while. Porsche is the best. Tesla is a tough one since they don’t appear on many of these surveys. CR recently downgraded the model 3
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...bility-issues/

Regardless i definitely don’t get the “warm fuzzies” about the way Tesla and musk behave / handle issues. In theory there’s less to go wrong though. I found the model 3 fun to drive and would consider one if it weren’t for the erratic management
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:05 PM   #24
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As for the model 3 and working on it... keep in mind that electric drivetrains require much less maintenance. You will need to do some of the normal brake maintenance (pretty much limited to fluid check/replacement since regen results is much less wear on the pads), tire rotations, and washer fluid top off, some HVAC checks/filter/desiccant replacements. The Model 3 has lifetime battery coolant - so that doesn’t need to be changed. As they get older, normal suspension and steering maintenance would be needed too.

Here’s a link to the manual with the maintenance schedule: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/...america_en.pdf
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:48 PM   #25
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Your reliability standard is simply too high. 60k miles of low hassle is all I expect from VW, BMW or really anybody. You might get lucky or unlucky with any maker, but if you want a 95% chance of trouble-free, buy a quality no-frills Toyota or something comparable...
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:07 PM   #26
robg
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Originally Posted by John V View Post
Oh my god, no. Anyway, I already have a truck that can actually do trucky things (like tow)

I guess I never stated my desires / goals.

1) Small-ish but with utility. No trucks, no SUVs.
2) Reasonably good handling, and quick.
3) Reasonably efficient. The Mazdaspeed averages 23MPG and the Boxster averages 24. Ideally, I'd like to do better than those cars.
4) Reliable (i.e. no BMWs)

Irritatingly I keep coming back to the GTI and the Tesla.
Not sure if it's practical enough, and the looks are polarizing but some form of Lexus IS maybe? Just thinking something from Toyota/Lexus might be the best bet for a car you want to keep for a long time with minimal hassle.

I think the GTi will be somewhat known quantity in terms of maintenance/repairs. And they have a 6/72 warranty now which might keep your 10 year overall cost in line with what a civic would cost. But they do seem to have a rep for being difficult about warranty repairs.

The Tesla is definitely a crapshoot. As ZBB points out, there's less maintenance required and in theory less to go wrong. There's also a rabid fanbase that's likely to find ways to keep these cars going even if Tesla goes under or post warranty repairs prove exorbinant (people always find a way to hack into anything). When I was researching the Model S, there were certainly plenty of horror stories but the Model 3 is a simpler car and benefits from some of those learnings. It also has lots of new and proprietary tech developed by a company that is constantly stretching itself thin. Overall, I dont think I'd count on it being cheaper overall to own than a 3 series or A4 though over a 10 year period. Great if it proves otherwise but best to go in with a conservative estimate.

But overall just get the car you like the most because any car can have issues, and if it's one you dislike from the beginning you'll resent it even more.

Last edited by robg; 07-16-2019 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V View Post
Oh my god, no. Anyway, I already have a truck that can actually do trucky things (like tow)

I guess I never stated my desires / goals.

1) Small-ish but with utility. No trucks, no SUVs.
2) Reasonably good handling, and quick.
3) Reasonably efficient. The Mazdaspeed averages 23MPG and the Boxster averages 24. Ideally, I'd like to do better than those cars.
4) Reliable (i.e. no BMWs)

Irritatingly I keep coming back to the GTI and the Tesla.
Sell the Boxster + Mazda and get a Cayman + snow tires.

Keeping the Mazda is sensible, but I agree there's no shame in dumping it. .

No BMWs makes it tough. You really liked Nick's E36, and could build a similar one standing on your head. Why not do that?

I think you'd like driving the Tesla, but you definitely have to go into that with the mindset of "I might sell it in 2 years and if so I am OK with that."

The GTI would bore you quickly. Not that it wouldn't be nice enough, but the DSG isn't that much better than an auto. You'd drive it and think "I sold my Porsche for THIS?"
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:58 PM   #28
wdc330i
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Cayman is a great idea.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:42 PM   #29
John V
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You know, an M2 was on my list, but I think it's just too expensive used. Maybe in a few years.

My experience is BMW build cars that do okay for about 80k, then start to fall apart.

I'd honestly love another E36. I simply cannot find a decent one to start with.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:58 PM   #30
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I'm curious as to why you wouldn't consider a Subaru, because I was going to suggest an STi……
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Last edited by 3LOU5; 07-16-2019 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Edit
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