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Old 09-25-2017, 10:46 PM   #1
rumatt
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Why do people forgive Porsche for the 911's engine placement?

I've never fully understood why Porsche embraces the engine hanging over the rear wheels. It's always been a peeve, but I'm not a Porsche fanboy and I don't own a 911, so whatever.

But I just watched this Doug Demuro video on the 911 GT3RS and it was the last straw. It's a $200K+ 500HP car designed for the track. Extreme weight savings including carbon fiber everywhere and decals instead of badges, 750 pounds of aerodynamic downforce, fire extinguisher, center lock wheels for quick wheel changes, giant 16.1 inch ceramic brake rotors, a "pit-speed" button to make sure you don't exceed the pit speed limits.

But the kicker for me is: The rear seats are removed to save weight... and yet the engine is still in the wrong fucking place.

Why are people so accepting of the idea of building a performance car brand around a flawed platform? Even on the cars that are maxed out for track use? All while they intentionally cripple the mid-engine platform to prop up their flawed performance brand? Why do car enthusiasts forgive them for this BS?

Last edited by rumatt; 09-25-2017 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:28 PM   #2
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latest 911 race car is mid-engined
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:42 AM   #3
Nick M3
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Is there a more awesome car that you can fit four people into?
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:53 AM   #4
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Is there a more awesome car that you can fit four people into?
Can you really fit 4 people, though?
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:55 AM   #5
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Can you really fit 4 people, though?
Comfortably, no, but K's 993 has in fact transported 4 adults. Who had all of their limbs, even.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:04 AM   #6
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Matt's point is that you can't fit 4 into the GT3.

Which is a fair criticism, but then again the GT3 is in the end just a performance derivative of a luxury GT, so there are only so many changes you can make to it. Changing the engine location isn't in the budget.

I don't think the 911's engine location is inherently flawed for a street car, or even for a limited track-day special. It presents some disadvantages but those have largely been worked out thanks to clever suspension tuning. It also presents some advantages in terms of traction.

I still want to own one, someday, but it's looking more and more like that will never happen. Sigh. Some dreams die hard.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:47 AM   #7
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911's are really expensive so they must be amazing, right?


Edit:
Okay, I've learned from that video that this is the only PDK Porsche that I can own. I would constantly shift backwards otherwise.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:23 AM   #8
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Matt's point is that you can't fit 4 into the GT3.

Which is a fair criticism, but then again the GT3 is in the end just a performance derivative of a luxury GT, so there are only so many changes you can make to it. Changing the engine location isn't in the budget.

I don't think the 911's engine location is inherently flawed for a street car, or even for a limited track-day special. It presents some disadvantages but those have largely been worked out thanks to clever suspension tuning. It also presents some advantages in terms of traction.

I still want to own one, someday, but it's looking more and more like that will never happen. Sigh. Some dreams die hard.
Seems silly to me not to offer the rear seats as optional for at least the new GT3 touring. I forget how much they weigh but they cannot be that much since they are basically just jump seats.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:26 AM   #9
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For me it's less a question of why people "forgive" the 911 for its issues and more a question of why Porsche doesn't build an all-out GT version of their mid-engine platform. The Cayman GT4 is a badass car, but it doesn't have all the tricks of the GT cars, in particular the much-wider front wheel and tire package and the extra front camber.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:19 PM   #10
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For me it's less a question of why people "forgive" the 911 for its issues and more a question of why Porsche doesn't build an all-out GT version of their mid-engine platform. The Cayman GT4 is a badass car, but it doesn't have all the tricks of the GT cars, in particular the much-wider front wheel and tire package and the extra front camber.
It use to be because they did not want to hurt the bread earning 911 owners. Nowadays with the SUVs it seems like that restriction is gone. There were rumors that the next Gen GT4 would have a slightly de-tuned GT3 engine.

edit; you can make a mid-engine car with rear seats, see lotus evora. When I checked out a evora when it first came out the rear seats seemed even smaller then the 911(which makes sense)
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