carmudgeons.com  

Go Back   carmudgeons.com > Automotive Forums > Technical Superiority

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-07-2017, 08:04 PM   #1
Plaz
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '11 1M; '08 MCS; '02 325iT
Location: Churzee
Posts: 17,019
Diagnose my clutch over the internet

I know I can't get a definitive answer on this without having someone who knows what they're doing "get in there," but I have to try and at least guess what's going on in order to know how and who I want to handle this.

For a few months now, though I've experienced no slipping per se, I've been concerned something with my 1M's clutch has just not been "right."

It was somewhat worse in the cold weather, so I thought maybe I was imagining things, but now I know I'm not.

The most noticeable manifestation of the problem is when starting from a stop in 1st. As I engage the clutch and lift the pedal through the bite point, there's often (though not always) a good bit of "judder" for lack of a better term -- it almost feels as if it's not two parallel planes coming together. Then, almost every time, there's a delay from when I've come up fully through the bite point and when the whole mechanism feels as if it has locked... at which point there's a delayed (not super harsh, but present) "thud" as the whole system is finally working together properly. I have not had any problems or signs of unusual behavior on any other shifts -- only when launching.

It's a lot like complaints I've read online about the so-called "CDV," but these symptoms are not inherent to the design of the car... I had none of these issues for the first 70,000 miles I've driven this thing.

I also don't think it's just routine clutch wear, or a result of abuse -- I'm really pretty gentle with my clutch. I've had several manual trans cars well over 100,000 miles and have never had any clutch issues at all, let alone having to replace one.

The working theory I'm leaning toward is a problem/failure with the dual mass flywheel springs. Do those of you more knowledgable than me think that's a viable theory? Could one or more springs be shot, and the "thud" I'm feeling be when one of the independently rotating pieces of the flywheel hits the physical stops built into the other half?

I want this fixed, but want it done right. I have what I think is a good indie guy, but don't know if I should take the leap to have him do this, or go pay the exorbitant rates to a dealership service department where I know it will be done "by the book."

Any insight or advice appreciated. Thanks!
__________________
2011 1M
Plaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 08:19 PM   #2
John V
I only like old BMWs.
 
John V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Carmudgeonly Ride: 987S, Ram, MS3, 330Ci, CX-5
Location: Glenwood, MD
Posts: 11,882
Yes, it sounds like a dual mass issue.
John V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 08:29 PM   #3
Plaz
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '11 1M; '08 MCS; '02 325iT
Location: Churzee
Posts: 17,019
Thanks!
__________________
2011 1M
Plaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 08:30 PM   #4
rumatt
Mugwump
 
rumatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: E46 330i
Location: NY
Posts: 15,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaz View Post
I have what I think is a good indie guy, but don't know if I should take the leap to have him do this, or go pay the exorbitant rates to a dealership service department where I know it will be done "by the book."
Isn't a clutch and flywheel within the abilities of a decent indie guy?

Also, who is your decent indie guy? I don't really have one up here.
rumatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 08:47 PM   #5
Plaz
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '11 1M; '08 MCS; '02 325iT
Location: Churzee
Posts: 17,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
Isn't a clutch and flywheel within the abilities of a decent indie guy?

Also, who is your decent indie guy? I don't really have one up here.
I guess, I'm just a little paranoid. I don't want this to turn into a multi-phase nightmare.

I use this guy: http://www.pinnaclemotorworks.com

I've only used him for routine maintenance stuff so far. But he seems to know what he's doing, doesn't try to sell me services I don't need (unlike every fucking dealership service dept), has been in business a long time, and has a lot of long-term customers with multiple BMWs, MBs, Porsches, and Audis.
__________________
2011 1M
Plaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 09:35 PM   #6
rumatt
Mugwump
 
rumatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: E46 330i
Location: NY
Posts: 15,266
Damn I had never heard of Stirling NJ. And I went to grad school in New Brunswick.

That stinks about the clutch issues though.

JV said the flywheel that came out of my E46 was in pretty good condition. You can have that one if you want it.
rumatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 09:44 PM   #7
John V
I only like old BMWs.
 
John V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Carmudgeonly Ride: 987S, Ram, MS3, 330Ci, CX-5
Location: Glenwood, MD
Posts: 11,882
So... I take that comment back. The springs on it are shot.
John V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 09:54 PM   #8
rumatt
Mugwump
 
rumatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: E46 330i
Location: NY
Posts: 15,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by John V View Post
So... I take that comment back. The springs on it are shot.
Still might be better than Plaz's.

I did notice that my clutch would shudder sometimes, usually in reverse. I assumed that was more about the surface of the clutch plate though.

I'd be curious to see when I come get the car, if you haven't tossed it already.
rumatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2017, 11:04 PM   #9
Nick M3
Old Fart
 
Nick M3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 8,415
My general recommendation is give it an extra 500 revs before engagement. Any solution involves a new clutch assembly, so who cares if you use it up a little faster?

Edit: And I agree that it's most likely that the flywheel is failing to operate correctly. Stupid dial mass crap.
__________________
2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison
2002 BMW M3
1999 323i GTS2
1995 M3 S50B32, S6S420G, 3.91
1990 325is
1989 M3

Hers:
1988 325iX
1996 911 Turbo


Nick M3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2017, 07:45 AM   #10
John V
I only like old BMWs.
 
John V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Carmudgeonly Ride: 987S, Ram, MS3, 330Ci, CX-5
Location: Glenwood, MD
Posts: 11,882
Quote:
Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
Still might be better than Plaz's.

I did notice that my clutch would shudder sometimes, usually in reverse. I assumed that was more about the surface of the clutch plate though.

I'd be curious to see when I come get the car, if you haven't tossed it already.

I have all the parts, I don't think I threw anything away except old gaskets
John V is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Clutch proper break in, also what actually burn/hurts the clutch AF Perseverators Anonymous 4 07-20-2014 09:06 AM
diagnose clyde's car clyde Technical Superiority 32 12-23-2008 06:12 PM
Diagnose my spark plugs rumatt Car Talk 15 02-22-2005 07:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Forums 2003-2008, 'Mudgeon Enterprises - Site hosting by AYN & Associates, LLC