12-13-2019, 02:05 PM | #41 | |
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Also, I believe that LEOs are more likely to pull over guys in Porsches, BMWs, Benzes and other expensive cars because there's a certain jealousy aspect involved. And I agree with the majority here about the whole PBA system.
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12-13-2019, 02:25 PM | #42 |
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Look, the argument you’re making at bottom is a variant of whataboutism, or “everybody’s doing it,” or potentially slippery slopism.
I don’t find the argument that it’s OK to do this obviously wrong and corrupt thing because other people do other obviously wrong and corrupt things persuasive. There’s no bottom to that line of thinking. Is what AF is doing OK? No. It’s not. Taken on its own terms, it’s wrong, corrupt, and potentially criminal. It’s not an excuse to say “oh well yes but the whole system is corrupt.” |
12-13-2019, 02:40 PM | #43 | |
Mugwump
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It would be helpful to hear your answer to the hypothetical about the kid caught with cocaine... and why you think that's not "wrong, corrupt, and potentially criminal". And whether you'd ever say to a client, "There's a perfectly legal loophole available, but I believe it's wrong and corrupt to use it to get you off"? I'm getting at the ethics of the person using the loophole, not whether it should exist. . Last edited by rumatt; 12-13-2019 at 04:23 PM. Reason: Typos |
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12-13-2019, 03:38 PM | #44 | |
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Criminal ?? That is ridiculous, I am a very easy going person but I take complete offense to being accused of doing anything criminal. All I did was give my information as well as the card to the police, I didn’t ask for leniency and I didn’t make any bs excuses for what I did wrong ... if the cop gave me a ticket I would deal with it and if he decides not to that is definitely all right with me. When you get pulled over it is the police officers decision to decide to ticket you and also to decide what tickets they will give. In this case I got in the Police officers words ‘a warning’ you do know police officers do that right ?? You know if I do it again and the same guy stops me he is going to ticket the shit out of me. Btw I don’t know one person who gets pulled over and says, hey mister police officer please ticket me for what I did wrong and did you notice there is no front plate, please ticket me for that too. Whatever you do don’t let me off with a warning Let me ask you something else, have you ever been offered anything for free or greatly discounted because you knew someone that worked (not owned) at that establishment, maybe at a restaurant a friend gave you a free drink, maybe a mechanic fixed something for free, maybe you know someone who manages a hotel and gave you a free room ... are you now going to say, no that is wrong I want to pay full price ... They have an expression and it applies to real life ‘sometimes it all who you know’ Now please when you respond don’t accuse me of something so serious because it is just wrong and highly offensive. |
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12-13-2019, 04:54 PM | #45 | |
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That's not ok. And the difference between this and a restaurant owner giving me a table toward the front is that a restaurant owner is a private citizen who is free to do whatever she likes with her property, and a police officer is a State employee who works for the public good, not for his or her own private interests. That is a bright line--or it should be. It should not be blurred. You should not use your office to give bennies to your friends, or to let your friends do things you wouldn't let others do. That is the literal, textbook definition of corruption. Whether it constitutes actual bribery/receipt of bribery under the New York Penal Law is a tougher question. I'm not a New York lawyer and I'm sure it would be a stretch. But it's wrong no matter what. |
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12-13-2019, 04:57 PM | #46 | |
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S 200.10 Bribe receiving in the third degree. A public servant is guilty of bribe receiving in the third degree when he or she solicits, accepts or agrees to accept any benefit from another person upon an agreement or understanding that his or her vote, opinion, judgment, action, decision or exercise of discretion as a public servant will thereby be influenced. The thing that makes this a little complicated is that the benefit to the cop is somewhat attenuated--but the reason they all look the other way is so that their friends get the same treatment, right? I mean, you honor the PBA thing so that your buddies that have PBA cards also have literal "get out of jail free" cards. So, yeah, I think what we're talking about here is an implicitly agreed upon scheme by the police to use the powers of their public offices to enrich themselves and their friends. |
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12-13-2019, 05:34 PM | #47 |
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Those PBA cards are shite.
A former friend of mine dated a cop for a while and he gave her a bunch of FoP patches, which she scattered across the dash of her car. Kinda the same thing, I guess. Didn't seem to get her out of any tickets As for cops pulling over the last person in a line of violators (speeders, HoV violators, whatever), that is common. You're the easiest one to pull over. Anecdotally I've not seen any evidence that cops pull over bright-colored cars or sports cars more than other vehicles. After avoiding being pulled over for years, I got stopped and got a warning for speeding while driving Marisa's CX-5 a couple years ago |
12-13-2019, 05:39 PM | #48 |
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It's not a "get out of jail free" card. It's a "my cop friend isn't here but if he were he would ask you to be lenient, within your discretion" card. It doesn't get you off for murder, it just helps just a little... Just like knowing the DA does.
Interesting angle on it being a bribe. But if you accept your definition of bribery (the payment is the agreement to help out later) then I fail to see how other activities in the DA's office are not illegal bribes as well. Maybe you think they are? |
12-13-2019, 05:45 PM | #49 |
Carmudgeon
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Jeez Josh ... that is so far fetched, corruption ... bribery
I get the animosity because you unfortunately don’t have a pba card but I think you’re going off on the deep end on this one, but hey I don’t have one now either so I’m pissed too Also i didn’t say an owner giving you a break I said someone who worked (not owned) the establishment (that’s stealing isn’t it). |
12-13-2019, 05:52 PM | #50 | |
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I can't defend or pass judgment on "other actions in the DAs office" in a vacuum. There are plenty of things that happen with a wink and a nod that are probably over the moral and ethical lines. But in my mind, there's a vast difference between: (a) "I have a relationship with the DA, so he'll return my calls and listen to me" and (b) "I have a relationship with the DA, and he'll do me a solid because maybe someday I'll be in a position to help him out." The first is lobbying. The second is the opening scene of the Godfather. What strikes me about the PBA card thing, and makes it so odious, are the following two features: 1) It is organized and systemic, apparently--it's a complex, informal system designed to allow cops to scratch the backs of other cops' friends. This isn't a one-off, personal interaction; it's a careful, premeditated construct. 2) It is not a favor or a one off accommodation/act of mercy, it's an (implicit, indirect) quid pro quo. You do the thing because you want other cops to do the thing for you. |
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