(My wife's waffle...) New Volvo V60R/V70R or Used BMW 540i?

[FC]

Originally Posted by rwg

I know you guys are tired of hearing me say I don't "get" why you are all so found of the Subarus, but I wouldn't even consider one. They aren't anywhere close to in the same league as the cars TD is considering for fit and finish, luxury and styling.

You know, I used to at your comments, but after driving the Saabaru for a few thousand miles, I'm going to need a LONG test drive of the Outback 3.0R before we get one.

Even with the "Saab" goodies (extra insulation, leather surfaces, premium audio, heated seats, etc) the car is what it is: a japanese compact. Now, I remember the Outback being nicer, but the E39 touring I drove was miles better in feel, quality, etc. Add to that that I constantly miss my 330i's suspension, and I think we'll end up with a CPO V70R before a used Outback 3.0R.

The yuppieness is strong with me, I guess.

[JST]

Originally Posted by rwg

I know you guys are tired of hearing me say I don't "get" why you are all so found of the Subarus, but I wouldn't even consider one. They aren't anywhere close to in the same league as the cars TD is considering for fit and finish, luxury and styling.

I drove the WRX in today. Luxurious? No. Fit and finish? Decent, but Japanese generic. Engine sound? Volkswagen meets hairdryer.

But the thing with the WRX (and this is true of the Legacy) is that it is such an honest car. It is just very useful and basic, while still being a hoot to drive. Everything about it works well--the ergonomics are good, the clutch feel is good, the AWD system kicks ass, the engine makes great power (as long as you ignore the turbo lag), it's as reliable as a stump, and it's actually quite fun to drive. It's kind of fugly, but it's kind of fugly in a Saabish, unique way.

The Legacy is better than the WRX--it's engine is simply superb, with lots of torque down low and plenty of power. It's interior appointments are a step above, too, and while they aren't Volvo or E39 level, neither is the price. The ride and isolation of the Legacy is better than the WRX, though the handling suffers a bit. And the Legacy may be non-descript, but it's a harmonious, inoffensive design that you really have to stretch to call "fugly," especially in wagon form in the Imolaish red that Subaru has.

Driving the WRX in today, I once again thought that this car really is the modern equivalent of the 2002. It brings a well-rounded driving experience and excellent performance to the masses, and it has the same upright, who cares about style styling. It isn't fleece-lined, but sometimes a good work glove is exactly what you need.

[Rob]

JST, you just proved the point. Let's accepting that the legacy is all the things you say it is, including " . . . and while they [interior appointments] aren't Volvo or E39 level, neither is the price." Well TD isn't looking only at price. He IS looking at Volvo or E39 level appointments for a car that will be the family car.

I was not thinking of the WRX when I made the earlier comments. I would not include it in the "don't get it" list. But I would put it in that list for what TD is looking for with this particular car purchase.

Fernando, it's not the yuppiness, necessarily. It's just that once you move up to the level of car that your 330 is, it's really hard to be happy with basic transportation. Plenty of people here prefer more direct experiences, but we are not necessarily normal. Look at my choice . . . an attempt to cram the best of all worlds in a single car.

[JST]

Originally Posted by rwg

JST, you just proved the point. Let's accepting that the legacy is all the things you say it is, including " . . . and while they [interior appointments] aren't Volvo or E39 level, neither is the price." Well TD isn't looking only at price. He IS looking at Volvo or E39 level appointments for a car that will be the family car.

Not looking only at price, no, but TD is no fool--money is money, and the Leg GT is everything the V70 is, except it's a lot cheaper and it's more fun to drive. It's only drawback is that it has a bit less interior space and it isn't quite as nice inside, though the difference between the Leg and the V70 is much smaller than, say, the difference between a WRX and a 330.

I understand why he doesn't want one. Car desire is an irrational thing, and sometimes even the most rationally desireable package holds no appeal for us whatsoever, while other times a bland-seeming package inspires lust all out of proportion with anything rational (I am thinking, here, of the R32, which I still would very much like to own).

Still, it's a nice car, and one that I would be happy to drive and own if I were looking for a family-ish wagon.

I was not thinking of the WRX when I made the earlier comments. I would not include it in the "don't get it" list. But I would put it in that list for what TD is looking for with this particular car purchase.

Well, yeah, the WRX doesn't meet any of his criteria.

[FC]

Originally Posted by rwg

Fernando, it's not the yuppiness, necessarily. It's just that once you move up to the level of car that your 330 is, it's really hard to be happy with basic transportation.

This is true. And as you mentioned, much like in TD's case, the wagon would be mostly the family car, and one that my wife must be happy driving. And to her, vehicle dynamics/performance are important to a point, then comfort/amenities and subjective likes/dislikes take over.

But to JST's point. I (we) love the 9-2X for what it is. A simple, inexpenive to onw and operate car that does what it needs to do very well. We are VERY happy with it for what we use it for (highway cruising nonwithstanding). Come winter, I bet we'll like it more.

But I'll tell you this, when it comes time to let it go, I wont shed a tear over it. OTOH, I can tell you right now, even if I replace it with some awesome sports car, I'll miss my 330i. Just like sometimes I miss my 190E (even though it wasn't all that great).

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Fernando

But I'll tell you this, when it comes time to let it go, I wont shed a tear over it. OTOH, I can tell you right now, even if I replace it with some awesome sports car, I'll miss my 330i. Just like sometimes I miss my 190E (even though it wasn't all that great).

The MINI was a BLAST to drive. But I didn't shed a tear over it and I don't miss it at all, so I know exactly what you mean. Interestingly enough, I occasionally miss the 330, but I never miss the M3. I liked the M3 a lot more, too. I think it's b/c the 330 was my first "good" car and it bridged two very distinct portions of my life. It's a nostalgia thing. Then I get in my current car and everything is good again.

Sorry TD. I am done thread jacking now. I think you should get whichever one Mrs. TD says she wants. You can't really go wrong with either.

[SCA]

You know exactly were my vote will go...540i. 2001 or 2002, 6 spd, with SP.

My first car was a Volvo. Maintenance was a nightmare, more than ANY BMW I have owned. Maybe times have changed.

[FC]

Originally Posted by Sean

You know exactly were my vote will go...540i. 2001 or 2002, 6 spd, with SP.

My first car was a Volvo. Maintenance was a nightmare, more than ANY BMW I have owned. Maybe times have changed.

My parents ('03 V70XC) have had two minor unscheduled dealer visits, and one major electrical gremling that landed them a loaner car for over a month. I wouldn't own a modern Volvo out of warranty (but that can be said of most modern cars).

[TD]

(I'm bracing for the beating I will inevitably get for saying this, but...)


I now think we're just going to go the frugal route and keep the Saab for a while. Even repairs out of warranty are cheaper than a payment on a $35K car.

The convertible still goes.

We'll revisit the issue in a year or two and possibly do European delivery on a new V70R.

[rumatt]

Originally Posted by TD

(I'm bracing for the beating I will inevitably get for saying this, but...)


I now think we're just going to go the frugal route and keep the Saab for a while.

Why would you get a beating for saying something that we all already knew? :P