6 series --> you sure it's not against the 911?

[Rob]

We aren't the market. Most of us can't afford the car. Some of us think it's beautiful and I bet a bunch of potential customers who are the market will agree.

They are going to sell every one of them that they import. The people that buy them aren't going to care that you guys think they made a poor decision, either.

You know what? There are probably a lot of guys with that kind of money that won't by a 911 b/c they think it's ugly or boring/plain. The 6 will be just the ticket for them.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by rwg

We aren't the market. Most of us can't afford the car. Some of us think it's beautiful and I bet a bunch of potential customers who are the market will agree.

They are going to sell every one of them that they import. The people that buy them aren't going to care that you guys think they made a poor decision, either.

You know what? There are probably a lot of guys with that kind of money that won't by a 911 b/c they think it's ugly or boring/plain. The 6 will be just the ticket for them.

i think a lot of us aren't the market because our sights are set a fair bit higher than a 5, 6, or 7 series BMW, to be honest with you.

what i mean, more specifically, is that BMWs are everyday cars for a lot of people here, but when you get past a certain pricepoint, it becomes too much to pay for a commuter car and into the place where you want something special. by volume and associated buyers, BMW does not fit that bill well.

it's a very common, attainable car. it's a highly competent car company, but they do not do any single thing particularly well except be more sporty than audi or MB; the latter is subject to change.

[The HACK]

If you look at the sales numbers for 7 series (the base of which is the same as the 6 series), you'll probably find that a majority of them are LEASED. Yeah, you read that right. BMW flagships are usually leased for company or personal business purposes, and they're both PERFECT for that reason alone. They're comfortable cruisers with enough performance to show that you're "sporty' and hip, and with a jacked up residual that will make the cost of leasing said vehicle below 4 figure per mo., and in a tax friendly lease it's easier to lease one and drive around for 2-3 years than to own a, say, 5 series over 5 years.

I think you'll find people who has enough income to afford 2 996es to BUY a Porsche and lease a 6er for daily use. That's what I'd do if I make that much. Or people who could buy or lease just 1 996, with other cars in the garage (say, a 323Ci and a Z4 3.0), to go for the compromise and lease or purchase the 645Ci, which I'm probably in the situation to do.

I'm with Rob. They'll sell or lease every single one they bring over and then some.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by The HACK

If you look at the sales numbers for 7 series (the base of which is the same as the 6 series), you'll probably find that a majority of them are LEASED. Yeah, you read that right. BMW flagships are usually leased for company or personal business purposes, and they're both PERFECT for that reason alone. They're comfortable cruisers with enough performance to show that you're "sporty' and hip, and with a jacked up residual that will make the cost of leasing said vehicle below 4 figure per mo., and in a tax friendly lease it's easier to lease one and drive around for 2-3 years than to own a, say, 5 series over 5 years.

I think you'll find people who has enough income to afford 2 996es to BUY a Porsche and lease a 6er for daily use. That's what I'd do if I make that much. Or people who could buy or lease just 1 996, with other cars in the garage (say, a 323Ci and a Z4 3.0), to go for the compromise and lease or purchase the 645Ci, which I'm probably in the situation to do.

I'm with Rob. They'll sell or lease every single one they bring over and then some.

i'm not sure i follow your logic here, but i think your point is: since they're most likely to be leased, they'll sell all of their allocations?

which, would make more sense since the car is so iffy, you're not sure of the residual due to its spiffiness after 36 months......okay. i get that.

but an added point is that i don't know many people who actually buy 996s, either. most of them are leases. some people because that's why their businesses are setup for, other people because they know it's the stopgap 911, and they don't want to be caught with their financial pants down, either, at the end of the ownership period.

my original point is: most people who are in the bullseye demographic for the 645 will give a hard look to other cars such as the 911 and because of the added intangibles, if you play the numbers game, for basically the same money, but with more 'penis projection power', i think you'd find more people going the 911 way.

i was more shocked at how much the car costs as it is E60 based --WOW. it's basically more than a 7 series. it just seems like the 840 and 850 all over again, i.e. doomed to sell in short quantities and then to die early.

[Masskrug]

It's not that special.

And that isn't just BMW's problem. MB has it too.

You'd think that paying 70K+ for a car would get you REAL metal trim pieces, nicer leather, nicer finishes of wood. Especially if you can get the same engine and suspension in other cheaper models in the car company's lineup.

Nope.

Look at how beautiful the new Range Rover's wood trim is. The leather on the 6 isn't even up to the M3's quality. And my Rogue Engineering aluminum e-brake handle is nicer than anything BMW has to touch (other than the receptionist at the dealer, but my lawyer says I can't talk about that yet.)

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by pDz

i'm not sure i follow your logic here, but i think your point is: since they're most likely to be leased, they'll sell all of their allocations?

which, would make more sense since the car is so iffy, you're not sure of the residual due to its spiffiness after 36 months......okay. i get that.

but an added point is that i don't know many people who actually buy 996s, either. most of them are leases. some people because that's why their businesses are setup for, other people because they know it's the stopgap 911, and they don't want to be caught with their financial pants down, either, at the end of the ownership period.

my original point is: most people who are in the bullseye demographic for the 645 will give a hard look to other cars such as the 911 and because of the added intangibles, if you play the numbers game, for basically the same money, but with more 'penis projection power', i think you'd find more people going the 911 way.

i was more shocked at how much the car costs as it is E60 based --WOW. it's basically more than a 7 series. it just seems like the 840 and 850 all over again, i.e. doomed to sell in short quantities and then to die early.

My point is since it's a lease for tax purposes/business use, there'll be more people looking at leasing something a little bit more practical than a 'Chop. After all, as a daily driver this car will offer MORE than a Chop would.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by The HACK

My point is since it's a lease for tax purposes/business use, there'll be more people looking at leasing something a little bit more practical than a 'Chop. After all, as a daily driver this car will offer MORE than a Chop would.

yes. that is true. the rear seating room looks actually useful.

i was amazed by 3 things about the 6 series cars that i've sat in twice in the past 3 days:

1. the price IS ridiculous. masskrug is right about the interior not living up, in the least, to the amount of money spent. it's horrendous.

2. the rear seating room is nice.

3. it's pretty light.

[lemming]

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6947

i have to correct myself.

the car is a pig. i should know better than to trust (without verifying) hackernaut's curb weight numbers.

the 645Ci coupe is 3750 pounds in manual transmission form.

BLECH.

calling this an M3 competitor is just wrong.

[JST]

Originally Posted by pDz

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6947

i have to correct myself.

the car is a pig. i should know better than to trust (without verifying) hackernaut's curb weight numbers.

the 645Ci coupe is 3750 pounds in manual transmission form.

BLECH.

calling this an M3 competitor is just wrong.

3700 lbs? Might as well buy a GTO.

"While the new car won't win over all the skeptics, it's likely to convince critics to tone down their abuse."

Actually, it's 3781. The convertible is 4181. :awe:



Further EDIT:

In all honesty, I'd rather have the GTO:





For some irony, click the link & read the caption:
http://www.pontiac.com/gto/gallery_p...&imageNumber=1

[TD]

I finally saw a GTO in person Saturday night. That's a damn sharp Pontiac.

And I would definitely buy one before buying a 645Ci (especially considering I could get two for the price of one 645Ci).