Back to Back M3s - Page 2

Nick M3 · 10-09-2023, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Excellent to have real world evidence head to head. Thank you both.

The G80 looks best in black.

The output is either car is prodigious and so impressive from a major manufacturer that will give you a warranty, coming from just 3.0 liters.

Your comments about the overly high tech dash resonate with me. Do you agree that once driving, you notice it less and kind of don’t care?

Your seat comments between the F80 and G80 are interesting as you’d think they wouldn’t change things so much.

One more good option to push off the whole EV thing (for some of us).

My thought on the gigantic screen is that once you go all digital, it's silly not to just lean into it and do a big screen. I don't mind it, although the way that they've done it is kind of weirdly halfassed.

dan · 10-09-2023, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3

I don't mind it, although the way that they've done it is kind of weirdly halfassed.

Yeah that's the head scratcher. Just no thought going into how to integrate it better.

And the main gripe is why not offer a multitude of different display options for the instrument cluster? Give me video game but also give me "analog" gauges, give me oil temp, give me whatever I want in there

SCA · 10-09-2023, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC

That's sad.

Unfortunately, that is where the market mostly is, anti-manual and sadly it has been for years. The manual take rate, especially at BMW sucks! FYI, in other markets the G87 manual is a cost option, even in the Fatherland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3

I don't mind it, although the way that they've done it is kind of weirdly halfassed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan

And the main gripe is why not offer a multitude of different display options for the instrument cluster? Give me video game but also give me "analog" gauges, give me oil temp, give me whatever I want in there

Fully agree on both.

JST · 10-09-2023, 12:49 PM

Maybe on the track the difference in power delivery would be more obvious? Idk. They felt broadly similar to me; impressive and very turbocharged, in both the positive and negative sense of the term. Both make power low down after a moment of lag, and both make really big power in the midrange, and neither really begs to wind the car out the way that the 9A2 Evo does.

lemming · 10-10-2023, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

Maybe on the track the difference in power delivery would be more obvious? Idk. They felt broadly similar to me; impressive and very turbocharged, in both the positive and negative sense of the term. Both make power low down after a moment of lag, and both make really big power in the midrange, and neither really begs to wind the car out the way that the 9A2 Evo does.

Can you comment, for comparison, on the shifter of the 718 compared against the F80 and the G80?

This might one of the few times in the world that someone could comment on the three cars and the relative merits/demerits of a manual transmission in each.

JST · 10-10-2023, 11:16 AM

The 718 shifter feels more direct and mechanical; notchier and more positive. Both BMWs have that typical BMW feel, where the rubber bushings in the linkage are very obvious. The throws in the BMWs are longer and squishier.

The BMWs definitely feel less overtly sporting and more lux-oriented, but I’ve never really minded the shift feel in BMWs so it doesn’t bother me.

I didn’t notice a significant difference between the two BMWs, again leaving aside that my car is a bit older and maybe as a result not quite as taut.

TD · 10-10-2023, 07:48 PM

Okay, I've been reading but haven't had time to chime in.

First I guess I should give my G80 impressions independent of the comparison to the F80, as I've been remiss in posting any. And first among those is the reminder that it was not purchased to be MY car. It is my wife's car that I occasionally borrow. It draws a lot of attention and I've never been in a car that draws as many attempts to race it as this car does. It's also louder than anything I've owned, which is kind of a guilty pleasure on my part.

I still have my 2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport as my daily driver and my impressions of the M3 are largely based on my more regular swaps between the two. Compared to the Alfa, the M3 is big and heavy. While having a ton of grip on hand, the M3 feels like it has to really use its tires for what they're worth. The Alfa just nimbly dances around. It's a super fit and fast linebacker versus a wide receiver. Both are enjoyable to drive but so very different - and driving both only makes me wish one could get the Giulia QV with a stick as I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat and keep it forever.

There is too much tech. Everything about the car feels like a computer is involved. Heck, the display even shows you what lane you're in one the highway. It shouldn't know that. Having to log in to your profile which brings up your settings only emphasizes that you're in a fast rolling computer. I realize every modern car is effectively a rolling computer at this point, but this one seems to scream it. Maybe I just need to drive a few more current model cars and I won't have this sense. But it really strikes me every time I drive it.

That said, it does kick ass as a super fast sedan. It's E39 sized and feels it when plodding around. But get on it and it somehow shrinks and feels way more nimble than it has any right to. I've also never owned a car with that much power and when you lean into it hard, it's can be a little intimidating. I'm old enough to have a more reasonable sense of risk than I had when I was younger. One could really fuck up in this car pretty easily. The number of part-outs I see on the G80 pages/forums support this assessment.

The car honestly drives like BMWs I've owned in the past - with the engine in "Efficient" mode and when driving in normal city applications. They did a great job of making the artificial feel natural. It feels good and it a pleasure to drive. With the engine amped up, it feels like a hooligan and I have to admit I am there for it. Everything still feels right, just so much more than I'm used to. And my wife really loves it. So there's that.

You can't get this car in any color other than black. Black does a pretty good job of muting the buck teeth and I'm coming around to the unnecessarily gratuitous styling. I'm mixed on the interior too. The seats suck compared to the sport seats in the Giulia. They are designed for people larger than me and I'm not falling away to nothing these days.

I still haven't played with all of the drive settings that every review discusses.I thought about doing that tonight when I got home from the office as I took it today and got it detailed while it was there. But I didn't.

Okay, on to the comparison with Josh's F80...

I don't know exactly what I was expecting but I admit it wasn't what it is. Yes, they are very similar. I think the G80 feels a touch quicker. Not a lot. As Josh noted, both are a little flat to start, come on really strong when the turbos kick in, and then fail to motivate you to really push to the upper rev range. They both feel like they could get you in serious trouble but I did feel like the F80 was slightly more analog feeling, which is good IMO. But there are a bunch of trivially minor ways in which it shows its age, which you notice in aggregate. It's not a bad thing per se.But the steering felt slightly more disconnected at center and I hate to admit I have come to value a backup camera when parallel parking. But I will always prefer analog gauges and I strongly prefer the dash of the F80, even if the infotainment display is maybe a touch cramped.

Ride quality seemed better in the G80, although as Josh noted, that could be due to age. But I do think you can feel the extra weight of the G80 as well. Overall, grip seemed very similar and both cars inspire confidence. I share Nick's take that the stick is well executed, despite what MT says, and feels "right".

I think if my wife wasn't one to hold on to cars seemingly forever and, hence, want to start with new ones, I'd have been totally happy picking up a low mileage F80 instead. But I also have no regrets with the G80. I think it's way better than I hoped it would be and I do get a silly ass grin when driving it.

Now where's that QV manual?

wdc330i · 10-10-2023, 08:55 PM

Great write up.

My car has a bit of a leg in both worlds with an iDrive that holds onto the redundancy of buttons. And not quite enough power to get you in a ton of trouble. Plus, the reassurance and support of lots of cameras and safety systems. It feels like a substantial upgrade from my previous 3 series and most recent 2 series.

I am really happy with this car—in, yes, BLACK. And, contrary to the young people today takes in earlier posts, the teens seem to really love its looks. More than we do, TBH. It turns heads and gets thumbs up.

Would it be better with a stick? Perhaps. But, I am happy without it for a one and only car. For an additional pleasure/sporty vehicle, I would add a stick.

But, I doubt my future retirement budget will absorb a second vehicle. And I know my garage won’t easily again.

Next vehicle change is more likely to be future EV. 5-7 years from now.

Glad Mrs. TD loves her new car. That is priceless.

zach · 10-10-2023, 09:19 PM

Fantastic write-up, thanks Tom!

JST · 10-10-2023, 10:05 PM

Can’t disagree with any of that. It’s funny that that thing that is hardest to live with about my F80 is the lack of a rear camera or parking sensors. I’m mostly used to it but it would be nice to have — it’s too bad that it’s apparently prohibitively expensive / a pain in the ass to add.

10-09-2023, 12:49 PM	#14
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,653	Maybe on the track the difference in power delivery would be more obvious? Idk. They felt broadly similar to me; impressive and very turbocharged, in both the positive and negative sense of the term. Both make power low down after a moment of lag, and both make really big power in the midrange, and neither really begs to wind the car out the way that the 9A2 Evo does.

10-10-2023, 11:16 AM	#16
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,653	The 718 shifter feels more direct and mechanical; notchier and more positive. Both BMWs have that typical BMW feel, where the rubber bushings in the linkage are very obvious. The throws in the BMWs are longer and squishier. The BMWs definitely feel less overtly sporting and more lux-oriented, but I’ve never really minded the shift feel in BMWs so it doesn’t bother me. I didn’t notice a significant difference between the two BMWs, again leaving aside that my car is a bit older and maybe as a result not quite as taut.

10-10-2023, 07:48 PM	#17
TD Founder emeritus Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 21,007	Okay, I've been reading but haven't had time to chime in. First I guess I should give my G80 impressions independent of the comparison to the F80, as I've been remiss in posting any. And first among those is the reminder that it was not purchased to be MY car. It is my wife's car that I occasionally borrow. It draws a lot of attention and I've never been in a car that draws as many attempts to race it as this car does. It's also louder than anything I've owned, which is kind of a guilty pleasure on my part. I still have my 2020 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport as my daily driver and my impressions of the M3 are largely based on my more regular swaps between the two. Compared to the Alfa, the M3 is big and heavy. While having a ton of grip on hand, the M3 feels like it has to really use its tires for what they're worth. The Alfa just nimbly dances around. It's a super fit and fast linebacker versus a wide receiver. Both are enjoyable to drive but so very different - and driving both only makes me wish one could get the Giulia QV with a stick as I'd buy one of those in a heartbeat and keep it forever. There is too much tech. Everything about the car feels like a computer is involved. Heck, the display even shows you what lane you're in one the highway. It shouldn't know that. Having to log in to your profile which brings up your settings only emphasizes that you're in a fast rolling computer. I realize every modern car is effectively a rolling computer at this point, but this one seems to scream it. Maybe I just need to drive a few more current model cars and I won't have this sense. But it really strikes me every time I drive it. That said, it does kick ass as a super fast sedan. It's E39 sized and feels it when plodding around. But get on it and it somehow shrinks and feels way more nimble than it has any right to. I've also never owned a car with that much power and when you lean into it hard, it's can be a little intimidating. I'm old enough to have a more reasonable sense of risk than I had when I was younger. One could really fuck up in this car pretty easily. The number of part-outs I see on the G80 pages/forums support this assessment. The car honestly drives like BMWs I've owned in the past - with the engine in "Efficient" mode and when driving in normal city applications. They did a great job of making the artificial feel natural. It feels good and it a pleasure to drive. With the engine amped up, it feels like a hooligan and I have to admit I am there for it. Everything still feels right, just so much more than I'm used to. And my wife really loves it. So there's that. You can't get this car in any color other than black. Black does a pretty good job of muting the buck teeth and I'm coming around to the unnecessarily gratuitous styling. I'm mixed on the interior too. The seats suck compared to the sport seats in the Giulia. They are designed for people larger than me and I'm not falling away to nothing these days. I still haven't played with all of the drive settings that every review discusses.I thought about doing that tonight when I got home from the office as I took it today and got it detailed while it was there. But I didn't. Okay, on to the comparison with Josh's F80... I don't know exactly what I was expecting but I admit it wasn't what it is. Yes, they are very similar. I think the G80 feels a touch quicker. Not a lot. As Josh noted, both are a little flat to start, come on really strong when the turbos kick in, and then fail to motivate you to really push to the upper rev range. They both feel like they could get you in serious trouble but I did feel like the F80 was slightly more analog feeling, which is good IMO. But there are a bunch of trivially minor ways in which it shows its age, which you notice in aggregate. It's not a bad thing per se.But the steering felt slightly more disconnected at center and I hate to admit I have come to value a backup camera when parallel parking. But I will always prefer analog gauges and I strongly prefer the dash of the F80, even if the infotainment display is maybe a touch cramped. Ride quality seemed better in the G80, although as Josh noted, that could be due to age. But I do think you can feel the extra weight of the G80 as well. Overall, grip seemed very similar and both cars inspire confidence. I share Nick's take that the stick is well executed, despite what MT says, and feels "right". I think if my wife wasn't one to hold on to cars seemingly forever and, hence, want to start with new ones, I'd have been totally happy picking up a low mileage F80 instead. But I also have no regrets with the G80. I think it's way better than I hoped it would be and I do get a silly ass grin when driving it. Now where's that QV manual?

10-10-2023, 08:55 PM	#18
wdc330i dogged Join Date: Dec 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: '22 M440 xDrive GC Posts: 13,376	Great write up. My car has a bit of a leg in both worlds with an iDrive that holds onto the redundancy of buttons. And not quite enough power to get you in a ton of trouble. Plus, the reassurance and support of lots of cameras and safety systems. It feels like a substantial upgrade from my previous 3 series and most recent 2 series. I am really happy with this car—in, yes, BLACK. And, contrary to the young people today takes in earlier posts, the teens seem to really love its looks. More than we do, TBH. It turns heads and gets thumbs up. Would it be better with a stick? Perhaps. But, I am happy without it for a one and only car. For an additional pleasure/sporty vehicle, I would add a stick. But, I doubt my future retirement budget will absorb a second vehicle. And I know my garage won’t easily again. Next vehicle change is more likely to be future EV. 5-7 years from now. Glad Mrs. TD loves her new car. That is priceless.

10-10-2023, 09:19 PM	#19
zach swinging for the fences Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: 987, X7 M60i, e36 M3 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 5,046	Fantastic write-up, thanks Tom!

10-10-2023, 10:05 PM	#20
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,653	Can’t disagree with any of that. It’s funny that that thing that is hardest to live with about my F80 is the lack of a rear camera or parking sensors. I’m mostly used to it but it would be nice to have — it’s too bad that it’s apparently prohibitively expensive / a pain in the ass to add.