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Old 04-12-2021, 07:42 AM   #31
Nick M3
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How are you applying PNS? The lazy way is just spray on the car and spread around/buff off. that’s what I do.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:07 AM   #32
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My experience w/ PNS isn't nearly as bad as you described either. I've applied it both ways, a bit on an MF towel and wipe on, and the lazy light spray, smear around, let dry and buff off. I have noticed it leaves smears/haze that takes some time to dry and come off MUCH easier with some quick detail spray. Pretty much smack in the middle of Nick and Clyde's experience.

I find the Zaino ZFX product very similar to your experience w. Meguiars. A super light spritz per panel, wipe on and let dry. 10 mins tops to do a car. I do all the glass w/ it too because it really helps with rain beading. I then go over it with Zaino Grand FInale and the shine gets deep and the sheeting lasts a few months.
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Old 04-12-2021, 08:19 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M3 View Post
I’m very, very, very puzzled by your experience with PNS. Absolutely none of what you describe is anything like any experience that I’ve ever had. Wipe on, wipe off. I typically do the whole car with one towel.
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How are you applying PNS? The lazy way is just spray on the car and spread around/buff off. that’s what I do.
I tried both spraying directly onto the car and using an applicator pad. They were equally as bad on the application step. Wiping off was also equally bad except spraying on the car led to overspray and excess time wiping it off, so I did most of the car with an applicator.

The process was basically identical as Fast Finish, but at 10 times the amount of work at 90 minutes vs 9ish minutes.

At first, I thought I might be using too much product, so tried a fresh pad and used only the tiniest amount and the results were no different.

The tackiness was really annoying, too, as it interfered so much with both wiping on and wiping off. I did some searching in some FB detailing groups I'm in and found more than a few people complaining about it...and a bunch of other people saying they don't know what those people are talking about. Makes me wonder if there could be some consistency or storage issues?

I found and reread the thread where you used FF just now. I can't comment on how either product works with single stage paint. Your 4-6 month photo of beading on the E30's roof is certainly compelling.

I still haven't seen the car in the sun, but I was not disappointed by how it looked with some reflected ambient cloudy light when I had the garage door opened this morning to take out the trash.
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Old 04-12-2021, 09:50 AM   #34
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That's extremely weird. I can only guess that there must either be some batch issues (althoguh I haven't had any across the different spray cans I've used), or maybe there's some weird paint compatibility issue that's just different from the weird paint compatibility issue that I ran into with Fast Finish?

When you bring the scales by, bring your can.
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Old 04-12-2021, 11:36 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M3 View Post
That's extremely weird. I can only guess that there must either be some batch issues (althoguh I haven't had any across the different spray cans I've used), or maybe there's some weird paint compatibility issue that's just different from the weird paint compatibility issue that I ran into with Fast Finish?

When you bring the scales by, bring your can.
I was thinking I might pay you rent for the scales with PNS.
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Old 04-12-2021, 10:34 PM   #36
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vroom. between me revving the s54, and the helicopter arriving, we probably annoyed my neighbors.

sonax looks damned good on this car.
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Old 04-12-2021, 10:41 PM   #37
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Ok so what’s the verdict on the PNS+Camaro issue?
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Old 04-12-2021, 10:43 PM   #38
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Ok so what’s the verdict on the PNS+Camaro issue?
The verdict is damfino. :/
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Old 04-13-2021, 12:19 AM   #39
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Ok so what’s the verdict on the PNS+Camaro issue?
There were a few minutes this afternoon when the sun came out. I rolled the car out and…it looked pretty nice in the sun. I found a few spots where I hadn't gotten it all off last night and it all came off with a gentle wipe from a microfiber.



I went to Nick's tonight. He demonstrated his application method and I totally get the disconnect. I had to beat back my inner OCD to not scream "BUT YOU'RE NOT FUCKING DONE!!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!" Earlier, when Nick talked about "wipe on, wipe off," who thought what he really meant was, "you just keep wiping until you feel like stopping"?

The interesting thing he mentioned was that residual product comes off with the first wash. If that's the case, my wipe off stage could probably have been toned down quite a bit…but I'd have to do the wash immediately after application. Also, with a little more thought, if I had put less effort into wiping off as I went and just went back for a wipe down the waffle weave after finishing the whole car, that may have worked out better.

While I was there, it started to rain again and I got to see how it beaded…and it beaded pretty well. The rain wasn't heavy enough to see a whole lot of how it sheeted, but what I did see looked good.



So, my updated thoughts are that initial performance is very good. Still not wild about ease of application, but my earlier assessment may have been too harsh for what's actually required.
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Old 04-15-2021, 06:38 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Ok so what’s the verdict on the PNS+Camaro issue?
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I was thinking I might pay you rent for the scales with PNS.
So, maybe I was a little too quick to jump to that solution?

When it rained Monday night when I was at Nick's, it was pretty clear that the Sonax PNS was pretty hydrophobic. Much better than with Fast Finish.

With a near equally fresh coat of Fast Finish:



Monday with a fresh coat of Sonax PNS:



The FF photo is of the roof. Note that the portion of the panel in the photo includes surfaces on three different planes while the PNS photo shows a single plane (well, none of them are actually planes because none of them are perfectly flat, but they're close enough). The FF photo shows a lot more water and the beads are more irregularly shaped than the nearly perfect circles/spheres in the PNS photo. Had PNS been on the car instead of FF for the FF photo, I don't think there would be nearly as much water, and there would not be any on the most vertical of the three planes.

When washing the car, I could see it was much different (and better) as soon as the water started hitting it. While actually washing it, it felt different. It was easier to move the wash mitt. It was also weird in that the sudsy water wanted to let gravity have its way with it to a much greater degree.

Where it was really clear that something different was going on was drying the car. After rinsing, there was much less water remaining on the car. Maybe only 70% as much water?

My next drying step is to use a leaf blower to blow off as much as the remaining water as possible. That was where it was REALLY different. At the end of the blow drying stage, there was only 25% as much water left. Maybe even less. It also took less time.

After the leaf blower, I use a super absorbent large microfiber towel to dry the little remaining drops so they don't dry on the car and leave water spots. With a lot less drops to get to, I can cover the whole car faster which means fewer of what drops are there have an opportunity to dry on the surface.

The last step is to use a big waffleweave microfiber to dry off the glass surfaces, door jambs, trunk and hood area, and nooks and crannies that always seem to continue leaking water for hours. This stage took just as much time as the others. If I add the coating to some of those areas and apply a good coating on the glass, I think that will take less time and effort, but won't do anything about the never ending dripping.

The next question is how long will it last? If it's good for long enough, I think it may be worth the extra effort to apply. If I modify my application process a bit (leaving more clean up until the whole car is done), it would be a major shift towards being pro-PNS.

It actually has me rethinking the ceramic application. Hmm...

The one thing may make this an unequal comparison is that the PNS went on top of an existing Fast Finish coat. That could make the PNS perform better than it would if the FF hadn't been present. Additional FF coats could also have improved its performance, but I had multiple coats on the gray Camaro and had gone on top of corrected paint, too, and it never performed this well.
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