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Old 08-27-2018, 01:16 PM   #531
JST
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Originally Posted by John V View Post
The thing I really worry about with any Tesla is reliability and repair cost. I haven't looked into this in a year or more but at that time it seemed like there was very little you could do yourself, getting parts is a pain, etc. Tesla expect you to have them do all of the work.

Ken's Model S was in the shop six or seven times during his (year and a half?) ownership period. One of those times they had to remove the entire interior of the car to fix a TPMS issue. One time they replaced the entire drive unit. Had the car not been under the factory warranty there would have been tremendous cost for those repairs, even if just to cover the deductibles.

I'm far from an early adopter (having never bought a new car in my life) but it seems to me that being an early adopter for a new manufacturer is a really risky endeavor.

I agree 100% that electric is the way to go for commuter cars. I just want some established manufacturer to make something affordable and interesting (aka, not a Chevy Bolt or a Nissan Leaf) before I sign on.

Reliability has improved a lot, I think. My first Model S had a bunch of issues, though they were all sorted pretty quickly and eventually the car was solid. My second (which actually isn't that much newer than the first) has been pretty trouble-free, even now at 45,000 miles. Certainly the equal of any BMW I've had, though maybe that isn't saying much.

I don't know what the Model 3 will be like. I'm a little concerned about the fever-pitch production schedules, but am hoping that those are getting ironed out now.

But, yeah--it's still not a car for the DYIer.
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Old 08-27-2018, 02:39 PM   #532
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I don't think there's even a way to put it on jack stands, right? There's no center jacking point. And you need a special adapter even for the jack points I think?

If I can't change tires in my driveway it's a deal breaker.
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:33 PM   #533
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Originally Posted by rumatt View Post
I don't think there's even a way to put it on jack stands, right? There's no center jacking point. And you need a special adapter even for the jack points I think?

If I can't change tires in my driveway it's a deal breaker.
That doesn't look like a problem.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thre....107497/page-4
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Old 08-27-2018, 04:07 PM   #534
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Nice on the jacking up thing.

But no center jack point for jack stands - not as nice.
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Old 08-27-2018, 06:20 PM   #535
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Make an appointment and go drive one. The instant torque is really neat.

But I was coming into this with the seemingly impossible goal of finding a car that is (a) fun, and (b) relaxing to commute into NYC in. The Tesla manages to do both. You giggle as it effortlessly glides up to speed at insane rates, the instant torque makes it easy to fill gaps when changing lanes, and the regen braking allows one-pedal driving which is more pleasant and rewarding in traffic than scraping (and pulsing!!) brake rotors. I left thinking, damn the electric motor really is the future of daily transportation.

However, once it sank in how much I'm spending and how many other cars I could have for that money, I did start to wonder. And those cars are much better sports cars... and better screwed together.

I don't buy that maintenance will be cheaper. There's still plenty of stuff to break (think of all the sensors and actuators) and when it does it'll be hella expensive. Some guy cracked his windshield and it was ~$1600 to replace at the dealer - no one else makes them so they're your only choice. And isn't there a regular maintenance/checkup schedule that I fairly expensive at the dealer? They also eat tires if you accelerate hard often. The thing weights 4,000 lbs. I suspect that tire cost alone will balance out any savings from fuel.

And I'm not optimistic about resale. The first run of a hastily produced EV vehicle? With a tired battery? After Tesla and other manufactures have come out with newer tech? This thing is going to be about as easy to sell on eBay as my 4 year old Samsung S6.
Yeah - I think you're right about potential maintenance/repair costs being on-par and possibly more than a similar German car. And good point on likely resale (again just like a high-tech German car). All things considered, I think I'd prefer to lease one if I ended up deciding it was the right car for me. Don't think that's possible currently though- not a big deal cause I'm not really in the market yet. Still, despite the unknowns, there's got to be some longevity/maintainability benefits by being so simple/solid-state, right? I'm thinking that you'd likely work out all the build quality issues under warranty within the first year. Also with the volume they'll be producing them in and the passion people have for them, there will likely be a ton of DIY support eventually. WIth German cars, there's always been a worry that we've finally reached the point of "un-DIYable" cars. But somehow people figure it out. Check out Rich rebuilds on Youtube as an example.
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Old 08-27-2018, 07:15 PM   #536
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Maintenance for an EV should be next to nil.

Repairs, on the other hand...
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Old 08-27-2018, 07:49 PM   #537
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I went in one more time to drive the performance AWD, to make sure I really want to do this. It was a longer test drive this time, and I drove the Cayman there so the comparison was back to back.

1. The Model 3 on 20" wheels is significantly more comfortable on bumpy roads than the Cayman R on 18's. The Tesla has half an inch less sidewall and it's still shockingly comfortable. I'm not sure how, but it is. From a ride quality point of view I'd take the 20's on the tesla. It's the $5k cost, questionable pothole durability, and inability to use other rims that bothers me. But I'd say 19's are a no brainer.

2. The steering in the model 3 is weird, and not in a good way. I won't say it's a total abortion like new BMW's, because it doesn't have a big floaty dead spot on center and then a bizarre non-linear resistance that fights you mid-corner. The Model 3 steering is tight and consistent in feel. But even in "standard" a) there's a lot of steering input required to turn, and b) it's very sensitive. I'm guessing I'd get used to it, but the steering isn't exactly a relaxing experience. I found myself having to work harder than I expected to drive smoothly and keep the car pointed where I wanted it. On "Comfort" it's pretty awful - the steering becomes soft yet jerky at the same time.

3. Regen braking is just fantastic in traffic. It's really strong, so if you look ahead just a little bit you end up not having to use the brakes until the very end.

4. Shit, yeah the car is fast.


Getting back in the Cayman, the reaction was:

1. Normal steering again... YES!

2. Whoa that intersection didn't feel that bumpy in the Tesla.

3. Damn, this car is slow.

Last edited by rumatt; 08-27-2018 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:09 PM   #538
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The Cayman has some of the best steering feel available in a modern car, though. Even my old-ass 987.1 feels like road telepathy compared to any other car I’ve had at the same time—I remember thinking that getting into the E90 M3 felt like pulling on a pair of welding gloves.
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:25 PM   #539
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So... I heard back from the “inside delivery advisor” today (ie the guy in Vegas).

Car is now supposed to arrive in OH on Wednesday. He’s checking to see how far that is from the local store/service center/delivery center before he schedules the delivery. I’m taking Friday afternoon off, so I offered up any time Friday afternoon if that works.

He was also supposed to finalize paperwork today with no trade in. But nothing back yet.

As for the Model S. I have a relatively early VIN (low 11k...). The thread for that car documents the problems I had, but nearly all problems were in the first 15 months. But it never stranded me and was always able to be driven. The first problem was the main charger failed on day 9. The Drive unit was replaced at about 12k miles, but it never actually failed, and a lot of early Model S had the DUs replaced. Other issues were alignment - it needed 3 alignments over the first 9 months. It also came with a chip in the interior rear view mirror, which was just cosmetic. Later problems included a sunroof alignment that wouldn’t always close (they replaced the rails...), and a brake line that was rubbing on a trim piece (there was a TSB on this, which modified the rear wheel well liners to allow more clearance, but one line was replaced on my car). I’ve also had to have the charge port door replaced - the magnet that holds it shut came detached. Somewhere along the way I had one door handle replaced.

From 15 months to 4.5 years, it was mostly only in for scheduled service. Things like brake line flushes, coolant changes, etc. I did have the charge port replaced a couple times — but not because it would not charge the car, but once because the light ring went wonky (colors off), and another time because it wouldn’t reliably release the pin that locks the charge cable to the car (I could use the app to open charge port and quickly pull the cable out, otherwise it would immediately lock back up). In the last year, the TPMS system failed (and they put the newer system in which gives tire pressure for each tire...), and the glove box latch wouldn’t lock. Everything was covered under warranty, and while I paid for the extended warranty, I never was charged the $200 deductible for work performed under it,,,
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:36 PM   #540
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Why did you need 3 alignments? Did they just keep doing it wrong? Or was something coming loose?


Also, I forgot to mention... the sales guy said today that they have a batch of 400 cars coming in any day now. They've never seen anywhere near that many in one batch before. The production is finally really ramping up.
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