Back to Back M3s

JST · 10-08-2023, 04:44 PM

TD brought his G80 over so that we could do a back to back drive.

My overall impression is that (instrument panel aside) these cars are more similar than prior generations of M3; there was a much bigger jump E36-E46, E46-E90, and E90-F80 than there is between these cars. Maybe that’s because the engine is broadly similar in a way it hasn’t been in prior generations (at least when comparing the US S52 to the S54).

There are some differences. The F80, believe it or not, is a lot louder in the sportiest exhaust setting. It doesn’t have the blurble and pop of the G80, but it’s louder.

The G80 has a better suspension; it’s both tauter and more composed. How much of this is my car having 50K miles and being a bit tired? Hard to say. But the G80 is noticeably more composed.

The G80 is different and probably better seats; they at least did a better job holding me in place. The F80 seats are flatter and the bolsters are wider.

Is the G80 faster? Maybe? It’s hard to tell around town; both cars have more performance than you can comfortably use; both pull hard across a broad power band. The G80 has 50 additional HP but weighs several hundred lbs more, so it doesn’t surprise me that the performance feels fairly similar.

The dash layout in the G80 is probably better given the degree of reliance we have on screens these days. It’s basically the same as in the X5, physically, so I’m used to it and it wasn’t a huge adjustment. I hate to lose the physical gauges but in all honesty I mostly just use the tech and ignore the analog speedo, so the layout in the G80 is fine.

So, verdict? The G80 is the better car especially for the dual-purpose mission you use an M3 sedan for. But it’s not better enough to make me think of upgrading. The F80 remains an impressive achievement—the penultimate manual M3, and the last one designed with the stick at the top of the performance hierarchy. I’m glad the G80 exists, and maybe I’ll pick up a used one eventually.

But not right now.

wdc330i · 10-08-2023, 05:00 PM

I felt the same impression about the suspension/handling going from my F 2 series to my G 4 series: The G is just so much better composed, taut, and sharp. But, admittedly, I stepped up a class or two as well.

At any rate, seems like both you and TD left the exercise happy? We’ll have to hear from TD, I suppose!

JST · 10-08-2023, 05:18 PM

C/D testing confirms my subjective impression; performance is about as similar as it gets. One image below is the data panel for the 2015 M3 long-termer; the other two are for the G80.

Jeff_DML · 10-09-2023, 12:05 AM

Thanks for the comparison

Alan · 10-09-2023, 05:45 AM

Great review Josh, it is kinda crazy that the M340 posts similar numbers …

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1658231

JST · 10-09-2023, 07:17 AM

Yeah those are fast times from the M340. Auto/AWD helps a lot but the B58 clearly makes a lot of power.

Nick M3 · 10-09-2023, 07:49 AM

I also drove Tom’s* (his wife’s) G80 last week. I have to confess that I came away with a much more positive impression than I expected. Someone put a lot of effort into making the throttle/shifter/clutch action work well together in a way that they just have not in the other BMW turbo cars that I’ve driven. Also, the power curve of the S58 is correct. It also drives like a proper turbo car.

The steering was, well, inoffensive.

The dash is a strange choice. Why make the big slab if you’re not going to redesign the underlying dash? (I wasn’t that offended at first by the new drive screen, but once Tom brought it up, I couldn’t unsee it.)

All that said, the number one thing that I noticed was how little road noise there is. It’s a very comfortable car. I wouldn’t mind having one, but I don’t really have a place for it.

SCA · 10-09-2023, 08:21 AM

Personally I prefer the S58 to the S55 and I have spent ample seat time with both on track.

Note, everything technical for the G82 is a carryover to the G87 M2.

Speaking of S58s. I have heard that my ordered G87 is still in the showroom, unspoken for. Allegedly it being a manual and red has been a turn-off.

FC · 10-09-2023, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCA

Allegedly it being a manual and red has been a turn-off.

That's sad.

lemming · 10-09-2023, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

TD brought his G80 over so that we could do a back to back drive.

My overall impression is that (instrument panel aside) these cars are more similar than prior generations of M3; there was a much bigger jump E36-E46, E46-E90, and E90-F80 than there is between these cars. Maybe that’s because the engine is broadly similar in a way it hasn’t been in prior generations (at least when comparing the US S52 to the S54).

There are some differences. The F80, believe it or not, is a lot louder in the sportiest exhaust setting. It doesn’t have the blurble and pop of the G80, but it’s louder.

The G80 has a better suspension; it’s both tauter and more composed. How much of this is my car having 50K miles and being a bit tired? Hard to say. But the G80 is noticeably more composed.

The G80 is different and probably better seats; they at least did a better job holding me in place. The F80 seats are flatter and the bolsters are wider.

Is the G80 faster? Maybe? It’s hard to tell around town; both cars have more performance than you can comfortably use; both pull hard across a broad power band. The G80 has 50 additional HP but weighs several hundred lbs more, so it doesn’t surprise me that the performance feels fairly similar.

The dash layout in the G80 is probably better given the degree of reliance we have on screens these days. It’s basically the same as in the X5, physically, so I’m used to it and it wasn’t a huge adjustment. I hate to lose the physical gauges but in all honesty I mostly just use the tech and ignore the analog speedo, so the layout in the G80 is fine.

So, verdict? The G80 is the better car especially for the dual-purpose mission you use an M3 sedan for. But it’s not better enough to make me think of upgrading. The F80 remains an impressive achievement—the penultimate manual M3, and the last one designed with the stick at the top of the performance hierarchy. I’m glad the G80 exists, and maybe I’ll pick up a used one eventually.

But not right now.

Excellent to have real world evidence head to head. Thank you both.

The G80 looks best in black.

The output is either car is prodigious and so impressive from a major manufacturer that will give you a warranty, coming from just 3.0 liters.

Your comments about the overly high tech dash resonate with me. Do you agree that once driving, you notice it less and kind of don’t care?

Your seat comments between the F80 and G80 are interesting as you’d think they wouldn’t change things so much.

One more good option to push off the whole EV thing (for some of us).

10-08-2023, 04:44 PM	#1
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,643	Back to Back M3s TD brought his G80 over so that we could do a back to back drive. My overall impression is that (instrument panel aside) these cars are more similar than prior generations of M3; there was a much bigger jump E36-E46, E46-E90, and E90-F80 than there is between these cars. Maybe that’s because the engine is broadly similar in a way it hasn’t been in prior generations (at least when comparing the US S52 to the S54). There are some differences. The F80, believe it or not, is a lot louder in the sportiest exhaust setting. It doesn’t have the blurble and pop of the G80, but it’s louder. The G80 has a better suspension; it’s both tauter and more composed. How much of this is my car having 50K miles and being a bit tired? Hard to say. But the G80 is noticeably more composed. The G80 is different and probably better seats; they at least did a better job holding me in place. The F80 seats are flatter and the bolsters are wider. Is the G80 faster? Maybe? It’s hard to tell around town; both cars have more performance than you can comfortably use; both pull hard across a broad power band. The G80 has 50 additional HP but weighs several hundred lbs more, so it doesn’t surprise me that the performance feels fairly similar. The dash layout in the G80 is probably better given the degree of reliance we have on screens these days. It’s basically the same as in the X5, physically, so I’m used to it and it wasn’t a huge adjustment. I hate to lose the physical gauges but in all honesty I mostly just use the tech and ignore the analog speedo, so the layout in the G80 is fine. So, verdict? The G80 is the better car especially for the dual-purpose mission you use an M3 sedan for. But it’s not better enough to make me think of upgrading. The F80 remains an impressive achievement—the penultimate manual M3, and the last one designed with the stick at the top of the performance hierarchy. I’m glad the G80 exists, and maybe I’ll pick up a used one eventually. But not right now. Attached Thumbnails

10-08-2023, 05:18 PM	#3
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,643	C/D testing confirms my subjective impression; performance is about as similar as it gets. One image below is the data panel for the 2015 M3 long-termer; the other two are for the G80. Attached Thumbnails

10-09-2023, 07:49 AM	#7
Nick M3 Relic Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 12,486	I also drove Tom’s* (his wife’s) G80 last week. I have to confess that I came away with a much more positive impression than I expected. Someone put a lot of effort into making the throttle/shifter/clutch action work well together in a way that they just have not in the other BMW turbo cars that I’ve driven. Also, the power curve of the S58 is correct. It also drives like a proper turbo car. The steering was, well, inoffensive. The dash is a strange choice. Why make the big slab if you’re not going to redesign the underlying dash? (I wasn’t that offended at first by the new drive screen, but once Tom brought it up, I couldn’t unsee it.) All that said, the number one thing that I noticed was how little road noise there is. It’s a very comfortable car. I wouldn’t mind having one, but I don’t really have a place for it. Attached Thumbnails __________________ 2011 M3 2006 Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison 2004 X5 3.0i 6MT 1995 M3 S50B32 1990 325is 1989 M3 S54B32 Hers: 1989 325iX 1996 911 Turbo

10-08-2023, 05:00 PM	#2
wdc330i dogged Join Date: Dec 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: '22 M440 xDrive GC Posts: 13,360	I felt the same impression about the suspension/handling going from my F 2 series to my G 4 series: The G is just so much better composed, taut, and sharp. But, admittedly, I stepped up a class or two as well. At any rate, seems like both you and TD left the exercise happy? We’ll have to hear from TD, I suppose!

10-09-2023, 12:05 AM	#4
Jeff_DML Old Fart Join Date: Oct 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: T4R,GTI Location: San Diego Posts: 8,582	Thanks for the comparison

10-09-2023, 05:45 AM	#5
Alan Carmudgeon Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,685	Great review Josh, it is kinda crazy that the M340 posts similar numbers … https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1658231

10-09-2023, 07:17 AM	#6
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,643	Yeah those are fast times from the M340. Auto/AWD helps a lot but the B58 clearly makes a lot of power.

10-09-2023, 08:21 AM	#8
SCA Jaded Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 9,126	Personally I prefer the S58 to the S55 and I have spent ample seat time with both on track. Note, everything technical for the G82 is a carryover to the G87 M2. Speaking of S58s. I have heard that my ordered G87 is still in the showroom, unspoken for. Allegedly it being a manual and red has been a turn-off.