[clyde]

Originally Posted by clyde

Here I am behind a fun sucking Escape driver idling off the line after the red light went green. This shifting thing is blast.

Here I am stuck behind another Camry going 32 mph in a 35 zone on a two lane road again. Sure glad I have that manual transmission to interactively, um, interactive myself.

Oh boy, stuck behind three vehicles in a tight echelon left formation all moving at the exact same speed again. That manual transmission sure is coming in handy.

Look at that, no one in front of me...just speed cameras every 50 yards. Shifting myself is super helpful here. Wait, wait, ow the road is clear, no cameras, some nice turns... Hmm, too much power in second gear. Keep breaking the tires loose (because, you know, DSC off motherfucker, because I’m a real driver and don’t need those bullshit nannies). And plenty of fucking flat line characterless torque in third gear to accelerate with punch...but getting to fourth gear is just too fast to be worth it.

This manual transmission thing. Yeah, it just fucking rocks in modern cars!

I neglected to include a a few things like clutch delay valves and specific unnatural drive by wire features that work directly against manual transmissions like rev hang, pre-programmed throttle response when approaching stall speed that are the exact opposite of what you want, inability to increase/decrease RPM freely with the clutch disengaged or transmission in neutral.

Originally Posted by lemming

I would be as guilty as most for overthinking things.

But I know transmission choice is a subjective thing. Like styling. Or brands.

It appeals to me more when you call it an anachronism actually. There’s no logic for a sports car in our crowded first world lives. Why would a manual have anything to do with logic?

Why are handwoven rugs more expensive than machine made?

Why do some people buy handmade anything when 3D printers and robotics are more precise and superior? There are a lot of dumb choices in the world.

A manual seems less dumb than a lot of them at least.

Originally Posted by JST

Like lemming says, literally all the arguments you make aren’t against manual transmissions—they are against deriving fun from driving in general, and certainly from any kind of “high performance” or “sports” car. Those are the real anachronisms in the picture you paint.

As for pollution shifting from EVs—I’m pretty sure you know that’s wrong and are just trolling me, but I agree it’s not a necessary point to debate in this thread.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with logic or railing against anachronisms. It also has nothing to do with sports cars. Up the thread, people are lamenting the loss of manual transmission availability in the Honda Accord.

What I'm saying is that today's cars have become so clinically "good" at everything else that manual transmissions no longer inherently make driving experiences better and that when combined with nearly all real world driving situations, they actively make them worse experiences.

Let's review Nick's statement:

Originally Posted by Nick M3

old cars are mildly interesting to drive at speeds that have some relation to legality.

(I would use "reality" in place of "legality" to change the scope's shape, but close enough.)

This is the essence of what I'm saying.

If I want involvement or engagement, if I want to feel a mechanical connection, if I want to be able to enjoy the character of a car's performance delivery, if I want to experience some sort of positive emotion based on the thing I'm attached to in the worst of driving situations, if I want to improve the most mundane driving scenario into a pleasure trip...give me a car made before 2000 (perhaps a handful of stragglers after that) with three mechanically connected pedals beneath my feet and and a stubby shifter under my right hand, because that's where it's at.

Stubbornly clutching onto manual transmissions in modern cars because of what manual transmission used to be and what they used to do for the driving experience is not being contrarian, anachronistic, individualistic, or principled. It's just being stubborn. That is the essence of the philosophy behind a certain acronym that I cannot say at this hour (yes, that's a little bit of a troll, but it's also truthy enough that in your most objective moments, you know is also not without merit).

Pining for manual transmissions in today's crop of new cars is praying to a false god that when answered is answered in a "be careful what you wish for" kind of way.