v.true.

it's a weird demographic of owners.

Ditto. And outfitted with all the off road bolt-ons. I guess that's so when they inevitably end up in the ditch, mowing down saplings, they won't scratch the fancy aftermarket paint job.

Meh. A bunch of the women here regularly go off roading. It's not lupinsea type off roading, but it's something.

No, it's probably a bunch of folks who want something different or cool. They could daily or commute in a sedan, a hatchback or whatever (I guess crossover these days). Instead they are the people who would get a sports car, or a beetle 'vert or a Jeep. Men or women, it's not a rational choice, it's appealing emotionally.

I read enough to finally understand the JGC AWD sytems. Multiple of the web sites summarizing them are out of date, including the one I linked above. Here are the facts:

As equ says, QD2 (Quadradrive 2) is based on QT2 (Quadratrac 2) - they share the identical 2-speed transfer case etc. The only difference is how the transfer power side to side.

QT2 controls power side to side using BLD (Brake Lock Diffferential - ie the brakes)
QD2 adds in a pretty cool e-LSD that has the ability to send 100% of power to one wheel, effectively acting as a locking diff.

QD2 from the WK generation (2005-2010) had 2 e-LSD's, front and rear. But the 2011+ WK2 generation has 1 e-LSD in the rear only, and keeps the BLD for the front. The JGC purists are annoyed and think it's BS they called it QD2 with just one locking diff. People claim that Jeep engineering said "the WK2 traction computer is so much more processing power (quicker response) and with updated algorithms that front ELSD is of insignificant benefit, not worth its disadvantages. "


Here's a great video comparing the QT2 and QD2 systems on WK and WK2 JGC's. It compares:

Open diffs: FAIL
WK + QT2: Wheel spin, but BLD clearly effective
WK2 + QT2: Less wheel spin than WK. BLD definitely improved
WK + QD2: eLSDs very impressive. Looks like a pure locker.
WK2 + QD2: Not included. :( I was hoping to see how the front BLD on the QD2 performed together with the rear eLSD.




Despite missing a front locker, this WK2 2014 JGC seems to pass the diagonal test with flying colors - almost no wheel spin. The video doesn't specify, but I assume it has QD2.


And a fun torture test really showing off the locking ability of QD2 on a 2006 Jeep Commander

super fascinating. cool to see what is effective compared to full mechanical hardware for differentials.

i've never worried about getting stuck in the JK and i think it's open diffs on both axles.

I'm sure you've got some kind of brake lock differential going on there.

I wanted to get QDII, it was just too hard to line up shopping used with price, diesel, condition criteria. Once I slap some snows on this, also with the front-to-rear lock option, I doubt I'll be stuck.

Yes, they all have brake simulated on the axles.

Just don't forget to buy snow tires, then get stuck and become this guy :lol:

I already parked about on a good chunk of snow, ice and slush with worn all-seasons (the tire set I threw out). It spun a bit, but wasn't bad. i can also raise mine a few inches.

I don't know if that guy has the center lock (or would know or be calm enough to use it). Plenty of base Laredos out there without the locking transfer case.

Complaints so far:

- yes it's floaty, more so than the test drive indicated. I might go for the SRT sways if it gets to me. It won't be easy to do any other suspension mods with the air lift option I have.

Smaller stuff:

- A-pillar with giant mirrors and speakers built in blocks visibility on the driver's side. I move my head around to make sure I see the apex, the intersection and potential peds on left turns.

- Emergency parking brake and how it's controlled. The pedal is inane. I can't remember to put it on. If I put it on, I can't remember to take it off. Best are hand-pulled brakes, second are the electronic ones I'm getting used to (Audi's, f10, 981)... I haven't had a vehicle with this control in twenty years (since my last domestic)

- Wipers and signals/lights on the same stalk. This is just silly. Why is there no right stalk? So there is room for a non-existent column shifter?

- Jeep Chrysler Dodge Ram dealers. At least the one I went to have it serviced. The slimeballs deserve their own rant thread. And a letter to FCA.

Many good things:

- Averaged 23-24mpg overall, 500 miles or so between fill-ups.
- Grunty feel, smooth and quiet on the highway
- Pretty easy to park
- Pretty good visibility otherwise

And the WK2 is light years ahead of the WK, outside of diffs and solid axles.

In fact, the 2014 facelift is rather important, with the 8-speed ZF.

His front and rear wheels seemed to be spinning consistently throughout his attempt. I assume it was just a tire issue.

Thinking my JK gets stuck in terrain like that.

But I only see it go through snow. So.

So when you drive in snow, you put it in 4WD, and if you hit patches of road that are dry you just ignore the binding and tire hop when you go around corners?

It really isn't as bad as you think. It's mostly just some pulling in the steering wheel - pretty similar to a FWD car.

We are car shopping for my daughter and this thread came to mind ... for the second time she wants to look at Grand Cherokees(we looked at them last time she got a car) and again I check the safety ratings and it gets a moderate for the small front overlap which basically means your legs can get crushed in this type of accident ... Jeep has been aware of this for years you would think they would do something about it :mad2:

Check out the link it shows pictures of it.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/veh...kee-4-door-suv

I've seen that.

I'd be less concerned about that (that's me, I motorcycle as well) but more about that it's a big, heavy vehicle for a family really... I love the big diesel truck feel. With the regular 3.6 it's ok, but neither here or there. A smaller CUV/SUV (they are fixing the face of the cherokee, cx-5, disco sport, evoque) if she really wants the height?

I agree the Jeep is a little big but she drives her cousins and really likes it a lot.

I just can’t take the chance of buying a car for my wife or kids without all of the crash ratings being good.

Funny thing is I could do it for myself ... there aren’t even crash test ratings available for the 911 or R8 :dunno:

Would she go for an X3?

It’s onky noticeable in super tight quarters like a parking garage.

Otherwise it’s not that noticeable to me.

Obviously the system on the JGC is the modern apogee of Jeep 4wd.

But whatever is in the JK and JK is still oddly effective even short of Rubicon trim.

Huh, good to know.

When I "locked" the JGC center-diff, I could barely take my first turn in an open parking lot.

I just got her another A4 ... same exact car different color ... I’ll post a couple of pics when we pick it up. It’s been a crazy week ... I got the dreaded call from her on her way to school a few days ago ... a guy blew through a red light (not a yellow light turning red, literally went through a red light) my daughter was 1/2 way though the intersection(her light was green) and saw he wasn’t stopping and floored it ... lucky she did, the guy hit part of the rear drivers side door and got most of the rear of the car.

Scary as shit ... she and one of her friends have some neck, chest and back pains but we are hoping everything is ok (fingers crossed) kudos to Audi, it got hit by a big pick up truck and the interior of the car had no visible damage.

Argh ... now you see why crash ratings are so important ...

Hope no lingering injuries.

Ugh, glad to hear that she seems to be OK. Cars are always replaceable.

Damn. Glad she's OK. :(

Awful. I had a near miss like that with a pickup truck while in college (Hudson Valley of NY). In a tiny Mazda circa 1980. Lucky to be alive.

So glad your daughter escaped serious injury.

Wasn't sure where to put this observation, but figured this was as good a place as any.

I have a base Cayenne as a loaner today. The 911 has a minor leak at the water pump (wide ranging issue), so I dropped it off at the local dealer for a warranty fix of that, a broken plastic latch and the PA State Inspection.

It only has a big sunroof and 14 way seats as options and lists at ~$75k. For the money, I am not impressed. The steering is quite light and darty (similar to recent BMWs), the transmission downshifts more roughly when slowing down than I'd expect and trunk, while pretty large) has the sloping rear glass that doesn't give a lot of room for my dog. It also floats / pogo sticks a bit more than I prefer. The X5 rides more roughly but is also more controlled. From my month + of 911 experience, I would say it doesn't have a lot of Porsche DNA.

If I had to choose between this or the X3 b58 loaner I had last year, I'd take the X3 by a large margin.

I got a Cayenne loaner in late 2015 when I was selling the 997TT and brought it in for the universal joint boot repair and I was not impressed at all. Pretty inside, but felt and sounded awful and moved slowly with the base engine.

Funny you mention the transmission behavior. The Cayenne uses the prolific ZF 8 speed. I've now had that transmission in 3 different vehicles across 2 manufacturers. They all exhibited jerky downshits when slowing down to a stop. Funny that reviewers universally praise this transmission and no one mentions these annoying "drivability" type issues.

"People" definitely rave about that transmission. It's everywhere.