carmudgeons.com - EV future

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There’s a lot of news about this at NAIAS 2019. And they’re coming.

But how does it work in the middle of the country?

In NYC? In Boston?

Or SF or LA?

All of these people living on top of each other. How will the grid setup charging for all of the EVs, if the EVs takeover completely for gas?

At a gas station you only need 4-8 stations because each filling is 5-10 minutes.

How does this work if each car needs 30-60min?

Just thinking out loud. I can’t see how this works in my mind right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming (Post 544160)

Well, if people could fill up at home, gas stations would be a lot emptier. I think private garages will need to have chargers installed.

Not saying there isn't a point there, though. I think times will inevitably have to come down over time. Porsche just showed some crazy-fast charge time technology (I know no details).

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC (Post 544162)

The people missing out are the ones who are urban and park on the street.

We would need chargers as frequent as parking meters, right?

I don’t know how it is on the progressive west coast but it worries me to think how the grid will adapt to an avalanche of Level 3 or higher cars needing to charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC (Post 544162)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming (Post 544164)

Glad to see someone else here gets this is an issue.

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpo...postcount=2200

plus the next few posts

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming (Post 544164)

The people missing out are the ones who are urban and park on the street.

And they will continue to buy the remaining ICE vehicles until society figures out a solution for them. :dunno:

I will say this - the only time I have a problem with range is when I drive to the city and want to stay a few days. My car is parked outside right now losing 8% charge per night because it's 13 degrees outside.

In the mean time, Tesla will continue to dominate because Elon had the foresight to build a network of super-fast chargers across the whole damn country. I still find this to be incredible. More impressive than the fact that he's building some pretty decent cars.

I do find it kind of shitty that it's a proprietary network. But at the same time, I don't think we should block people from doing what he did. The remaining manufactures need to get off their asses and build something better... and hopefully open.

Why am I writing this? I don’t know. Probably because after three weeks of furlough, I have nothing better to do than argue on the Internet. Probably.

According to the 2017 American Housing Survey (via US Census) there are 121 million US households

According to the 2015 AHS (via US Dept of Energy):

63% of US households have a garage or carport
37% of renters have a garage or carport
70% of recent housing construction (2009-2014?) had garages

According to the 1997 AHS (old, but the stats probably haven’t changed much…Im too lazy to find latest version (via US Census)

76% of detached SFH have covered parking
46% of attached (duplexes, rowhouses, townhouses have covered parking
26% of multi-unit housing have covered parking
Up to 25% of housing without covered parking has no dedicated off street parking (not written clearly enough to decipher the splits of several housing types)
7.8 million households rely on street parking
40% of those without covered or offstreet parking report having 0 vehicles

University of Michigan study says there are an average of about 2 cars per household.

According to a garage organization and storage system manufacturer25% of Americans say their garages are so filled with junk, they can’t even put a car in them.

I'm sure there's more detailed data out there, but not sure where to find it and my interest is waning at this point in the post, but I'd imagine other factors impact the final picture of how many homes can support 1 (or 2?) EVs with daily charging today. Things ranging from a homeowner's willingness to be inconvenienced by having the wiring set up in their home (see rumatt's experience), people being able to fit their cars in their garages, to condo boards willingness to make investments (see the example of my brother's place in the other thread), to apartment complex ownership groups willingness to do the same for thousands of parking lot spaces at a time.

It all paints a picture for me that EVs are going to need a fast charging equivalent to gas stations to hit the tipping point. My conclusion is that an industry standard (whether jointly agreed by the industry or imposed by government) would make it happen a lot sooner and provide greater benefits to all (consumers, manufacturers, government, etc).

Maybe some kind of solar changing can be made to happen. Or cheap to install induction charging in lots, roads, and such, but that doesn't help current EV early adopters that are cutting the path for everyone else to follow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyde (Post 544169)

63% of US households have a garage or carport
37% of renters have a garage or carport
70% of recent housing construction (2009-2014?) had garages

According to the 1997 AHS (old, but the stats probably haven’t changed much…Im too lazy to find latest version (via US Census)

76% of detached SFH have covered parking
46% of attached (duplexes, rowhouses, townhouses have covered parking
26% of multi-unit housing have covered parking
Up to 25% of housing without covered parking has no dedicated off street parking (not written clearly enough to decipher the splits of several housing types)
7.8 million households rely on street parking
40% of those without covered or offstreet parking report having 0 vehicles

Thanks, Clyde! I didn’t pull the figures. But that’s the bottom line. Not everyone lives in a house. And even then it’s dicey whether or not they spring for L2/3 charging.

And then— imagine the network needed when we electrify 18 wheelers......

I think we're missing the point here that a large percentage of urban/multifamily dwellers will abandon personal car ownership in favor of driverless car share access. This will ease some of the burden of charger load.

The thing is, picture yourself 120 years ago arguing against the widespread adoption of petroleum. You'd say:

--Are we really going to build thousands and thousands of underground tanks, all across the country?

--How are we going to ship the fuel there? Where are we going to refine it? Aren't we going to need train cars and trucks and a huge amount of infrastructure to deliver it?

--Won't people object to having these things on every street corner?

--Won't people object to the inconvenience of having to make a separate stop for fuel? Or a whole separate trip?

Moving to EVs is going to require a sea change in the way that we think about using cars and building infrastructure, but it's only hard to imagine because we haven't done it yet. The actual work necessary to build that infrastructure out is time-consuming and expensive, but it's fairly straight-forward. All it requires is a commitment to do it.