The World Has Won
 

It’s been happening for a while now, but I don’t think we appreciated that 2018 would really be the last year of the performance manual family car. Certainly I didn’t, not really. I thought there’d always be *some* option for the diehard three pedal fan, that someone, somewhere would keep the fire burning.

But, no. As I look around for options to replace the VW (goddamn that car and all of its offspring, forever), I see...nothing.

Performance 4 doors? Nope. Nary a one. They are all gone. And no, the STI doesn’t count, and VW is dead to me, and a four cylinder Genesis? Please.

Performance coupes with real back seats? The M2, I guess. The M4, for as long as those are available. Otherwise...zip. Nada.

I should have bought an SS or an M5 or an M3 while those were still available. Even an ATS-V. Or a prior gen S4. Something. Now I’m stuck looking at used car ads for unicorns where dealers seem to delight in calling flappy paddle gearboxes “manuals.” As if.

So. Not sure where this leaves me. Maybe just knuckling under and leaving this whole “enthusiast” thing behind? I can’t get excited about slushbox or flappy paddle performance cars. I tried to like the Giulia. I really did. But I just can’t get past the transmission knowing better than I do—or thinking it does. And all of the ZF 8 speeds out there just feel kludgy and gross after the Tesla.

Maybe I’ll spend the money on an M2 if I can find one, as the last hurrah. Like buying a ticket on the SS United States, it will be the last gasp of a dying age.

Used F80 M3? Are the 997 / 991 back seats that bad?

I mean, maybe on the F80. But it’s a used car and not terribly easy to find, at least with a stick and in an interesting spec.

I went with a CPO 340i xdrive (due to my AWD requirement), it's certainly no M car, track handling package notwithstanding, but it's a pretty good daily. Not sure what I'll do next time around.

The m3 sedan seems to be the only one left.

The 340i manuals were getting snapped up and there was little flexibility in pricing. Conversely, my 535i is languishing. If the Roundel print edition, doesn't do it, I'll have to go to BaT.

I was going to say the Genesis G70 being I just saw one last week and was really impressed with it but I get what your saying about it. If only it came with the manual and the bigger engine it might fit what you’re looking for.

Buying used is such a pain in the a** being we are all a pretty picky group but if you keep searching you’ll eventually find what your looking for. At least this is what I tell myself when searching :(

Is the clutch problem something that is really going to happen again ? It wasn’t just a defective clutch that now that it’s replaced will be fine ?

Honestly I don’t know abt clutch. The stories on the boards are pretty bad.

But honestly I had such a bad taste from the service experience that I also just don’t want to deal with that anymore.

I surrendered awhile back because it was too hard and I lost this battle also.

Just drove the 987 this morning and that reminds me again of why we love cars. Shifting is fun, intuitive and immersive. The roads were still slick from overnight storm and the car wiggled on the on and off ramps. Shifting the gears really makes the driving experience superb.

But obviously in rich hour traffic it’s a “chore”.

Hope you find your way to make it work.

Mazda 3 and Hyundai Veloster too small?

I have a saved F80 search that I check pretty frequently - 6spd F80s are easier to find than you might think (certainly way easier than F10 M5s, which are all tagged as "manual" but 99% are DCT). Also easier to find in F80 compelling spec than 997s in my experience.

You definitely want Comp. package. Beyond that, there aren't that many options for these things - leather, leather dash, sunroof, and a few other doodads and that's it. Many of the comp package cars are pretty loaded.

3 is too gutless for him especially compared to his r.

Veloster N might be a decent option , supposed to be good based on the reviews. I have Hyundai bias so I would have a tough time getting one.

Honda type r is supposed to be a blast but how it looks. Maybe the refreshed version will fix the looks issues:dunno:

I'm back to thinking about Minis. And Quads.

Supposedly, the next gen M3 might still come with a manual, but you are a solid year plus out. And then it's a first year car.

This is one of the reasons why I got the M3 though. Despite not being perfect, it was one of (THE?) last chances to get a new MT car I can drive everyday. By the time the car gets replaced (~6+ years from now), there won't be any MT's for sure, and quite possibly no viable option with an internal combustion engine.

This is a warning sign

you know i'm a fan of manual transmissions. just asking how they fare in DC traffic, which can be so loathesome and nasty?

or am I just scarred from sitting on that wretched highway headed west from DC to Dulles?

I had forgotten that the Mini Clubman is still available with a stick. I went and tried one of those today.

The Good: steering, suspension, and clutch feel are all solid, better than the VW in most ways. The car has a decent amount of room. It's fun to toss around.

The Bad: The Cooper S, with 189 hp, is not fast. It's not slow, but it's not quick. The JCW has 228 hp and may fix that problem, but is $$$. Even in Cooper S form, the Mini has more torque steer than it probably should. The interior continues to be riven with gimmicks. They aren't as cute or well-executed as they were back in 2003 or 2007.

Most of all, the car doesn't feel very "mini" any more.

The Punchline: The 2020 JCW gets a 300 hp 4, which should fix any lingering acceleration concerns. It also gets a standard 8 speed auto.



Then I went to drive a Quad. I tried a Stelvio, because AWD seems interesting and the extra cargo space would be nice.

Unlike a BMW dealer, which guards access to M cars like the crown jewels, the Alfa dealer was more than happy to let me drive a 505 hp SUV.

The Stelvio Quad is an...interesting car to drive. It has a lot of power, but to be honest it's a little soft off the line, and because it's AWD it's never traction limited. The turbos spool fairly fast, but this is an engine with more top end than bottom. The auto shifts for you near redline (or you can flappy paddle it), with a really loud BRRRAAAP from the exhaust that sounds awesome until it occurs to you that it also sort of sounds like the car is farting from exerting itself too hard.

It handles well, though it feels like it's taller than it should be (it's an SUV, after all). Steering feel is good, and I liked the interior a lot.

The Stelvio makes no sense at all. I liked it, though maybe not as much as I thought I would. It's absurd but is it absurd *enough*?

The plot thickens...

This is why I keep coming here...
I was reading along just fine... minding my own business and all...

Then when I read this - I just about spit out what I was drinking... :lol:
Too funny....

I mean if you've moved from I must have a manual RWD sedan to I'll take a hi(p)po SUV, that opens up all sorts of options from G Wagons to Macans and everything in between. Not to mention all the non jacked up SUVs with autos/dcts... If you're good with the idea of all the Alfa maintenance headaches, what about this:

https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/ne...tar-engineered

Although the non-manual answer is obviously E63 wagon.

Ha- in my area, the roles are reversed with the Alfa dealer guarding the Quads like they are crown jewels and the BMW dealer being laid back about M cars.

Your absurd comment made me think of another idea: Jeep GC Track Hawk (Grand Cherokee with the Hellcat motor). Hard to come up with something more absurd. At the very least, I'm sure it would put a huge grin on your face. They sound good as well.

You'd also likely be the only person that owned both a Tesla and a Hellcat powered Jeep!

Switching from golf r to a track hawk is like going from a horse to an elephant, a fast one.

Also same here with the dealers. Haven't actually asked to test drive much recently but I've had it easy with M cars. The quad alfas were on carpets and clearly not for test drives at the north nj dealer.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Wrong coast, but Jon Shafer is now selling Alfa's

Sorry for the thread hijack but do you have Jon’s email address, if so can you pm me with it. I tried to contact him through Facebook but am not sure how to work messenger.

Maybe someone here knows the answer but I inquired about an i8 from a California dealer and they told me if I buy a car from them I have to pay California sales tax. This makes no sense to me being I did purchase my boxster from California back in I think 2006 but maybe things changed :dunno:

Basically the question is if I buy a car from Cali do I need to pay the sales tax or was this salesman just a dumb dumb

Interesting. I barely had to ask at the Alfa dealer. They were HUNGRY.

Yeah, I have read the same thing- if you buy a car in CA you have to pay sales tax there. But I think that only applies if you actually take delivery there- if you get it shipped you dont have to pay sales tax there. But, as long as your local sales tax is the same or higher than the CA sales tax it won't matter since you'll get "credit" for what you paid.

I gave up a few months ago as well. I traded (I know, blasphemy) my orange JCW Cooper S for a goddamn automatic behemoth Countryman S. :eeps:

It was a cold, shitty winter day and I was DONE with commuting in it. That and I slightly bent a rim the week before. And I was mildly depressed. I went in to buy a new rim, and left with a Countryman S. I'd never posted it here out of pure shame. I'll have to turn in my enthusiast card.

On nice weekend days I regret this decision. During my 45 min each way commute every day, I do not. :dunno:

disclaimer: I wouldn't exactly call either car a "performance" car.

Not his personnel one, but will work https://www.alfaromeoofsantabarbara....ship/staff.htm

Hm.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...6868/overview/

Wow, silver long haired fox:D

You are still welcome here. :) There are a few of us auto drivers here, hanging our heads in cyber shame. But here nonetheless.

I loved mine. After I switched to 17-inch wheels. Still, my 240 is nearly as much fun and 11 years younger with good tech and an adjustable suspension.

Carbon black and orange was always my favorite combo on these cars. EDIT: weird that it doesn't have the H/K audio.

This is the other plausibility.

https://www.carmax.com/car/16645045

I bought a car in California but took delivery in Washington (the old Yukon if you recall that one...).

Paid only WA sales tax. Granted - WA tax is/was higher than CA - but still, it was figured straight away (CA tax never figured into the transaction).

Very cool. Nice that it doesn't have nav, as well. Very strange about the lack of H/K, but there are aftermarket ways to deal with that.

The 2016 seems a little redundant with the Tesla, but maybe that’s not a bad thing. It would be good for your long range trips. You could put a cargo box on it.

Maybe TD would trade you his M3C for your Golf R.

Didn't FC say that there were important changes in 2017?

I might be mixing up the numbers, but I'd want to understand this in detail before buying a 2016.

Yes. Plus there was an important recall on the 2016s.

Edit: Driveshaft. Certain later models affected too.

https://www.autoblog.com/buy/2016-BMW-M3/recalls/

More info: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1550351

Edit again: Also rear differential https://leftlanenews.com/bmw/bmw-hal...rential-92360/
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar174610.html

Right, that's what I'm asking about--what the changes were. Maybe FC knows off the top of his head. Internet sleuthing reveals that one change was making M Adaptive suspension standard, but this car appears to have that option.

I know for sure that for a NJ resident, the only sales tax you pay is NJ, where ever you pick it up or if it gets shipped. If you pay the dealer, the dealer will pay the state. If you don't pay the dealer, you pay the state when you register and title. I'd expect the same for NY.

Does not have the HP bump?

Competition Package:
Experience pure high-performance and ultimate motorsport feel with the specially developed Competition Package. The enhanced dynamics deliver faster acceleration (-0.1s for 0-60 mph), which come from a horsepower increase of +19 to 444hp (vs. 425), more direct steering ratio, Adaptive M Suspension with new settings in all 3 modes, New DSC setting and New setting for Active M Differential. The package also features 20" Forged Light Alloy Wheels, high-gloss black elements including the kidney frame, side gill and rear designation, and black-chrome dual tailpipes for the Sport exhaust. For M3 Sedan and M4 Coupe, the interior features M Sport seats with break-through elements in the seat back and front seat belts with M Stripes.

Hm. That sounds desirable, though I don't know if it's worth the extra coin. Plus I am not a fan of those comp package wheels.