new car shopping
 

Looking for a "second car" to compliment the Passat Wagon.

Needs:
-Good MPG
-Manual
-Doesn't suck

Right now the top two cars are the Mazda 3 and Golf TDI. The Focus was impressive, but the Mazda 3 is better. Loved the TDI, but that's starting to push how much I want to spend.

More in depth test drives on Friday.

do you want new?

Which Mazda 3, I am interested in the skyactiv one but cannot find a 6MT in SoCal to test drive

a Mini?

yes, only because the used market is overpriced at the moment. I may be convinced by a car owned by someone I know and can trust or the right CPO
They have sedan skyactiv 6MT on the lot here. I drove the 5door auto skyactiv yesterday.
Maybe, but the cost is creeping up there when compared to the Focus, Kia, Mazda.

Cost creep already set in to get me to the Golf TDI; I started at "cheap set of wheels" but the lowest levels of cars suck bad.

I like the Golf TDI - 40 mpg is tough to sneeze at. Also, there's just an overall goodness to the car, even if it is a bit less than exciting. Problem is, you've already got a Passat.

Since you're looking for a car to "compliment" the Passat, a Mini might make a better "fun" alternate ride.

Cars are so good now, you almost can't go wrong, unless you went with the new Civic, which has become vomit-inducingly banal.

Veloster? Fiat? Scion tC? Wait for Toyobaru? Mustang V6? Genesis coupe?

Toyobaru mileage is supposed to suck. I think they're predicting 19/27? Miserable for a light, four cylinder car.

I second the Golf TDI. I looked at and drove one a few months back and loved it. For me it would be a perfect commuter up here in Chicago. The only issue for me was the cost. The sticker price gets up there quick when you add the good stuff on.

I would take a look at the Honda Fit Sport also. Drive one and you might be surprised at how go cart like it is. It's also got a great amount of utility in it.

+1 on both

If you are ok with the price, TDI is cool. If you want something cheaper, the Fit is surprisingly nice. Could use a few more hp, but very versatile and handles well.


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That is terrible. What's the issue? I thought that the new Subaru engine was supposed to be better on gas than the old lump.

We liked the TDI over many other cars. It won't give you bmw/audi NVH/isolation but it's grunty and well-handling for a FWD.

I haven't driven the VW version, but I liked the Audi A3 TDI that I drove quite a bit (lack of a stick aside).

I'm going to drive the Veloster, but wasn't really impressed when I looked at it on the showroom floor. It's just a Kia Forte with crazy styling. I'd need the Abarth version of the Fiat and I'm just not sure I could justify that, I'm thinking about the Scion, but the older design leaves them lagging in MPG, Mustang isn't the most practical winter car; I already have the Motorcycle I ride when the roads aren't frozen. Genesis coupe is a little pricey I thought, but I haven't really looked at it. I was trying to stick with things that had a practical rear seat. I might sacrifice that need for a MINI though.
This^
I really like Subaru's; but the MPG is crap. In fact there seems to be a bit of a technology gap that some manufacturers have made and other's haven't. The clear example is Mazda, the 3 is essentially the same car, but they spent a bunch of time on the engine and transmission and went from low 30's to 40 mpg highway.
I was really impressed with the Golf TDI base model I tested. The only options I would really want would be xenon and their comfort access equivalent. You can't get either independently, so I'd just live without those and get the base model.

The fit's MPG was a lot lower than I was expecting, and the local dealer is known to be crap. I went to test drive one and was in the showroom for 20 minutes without anyone checking on me. I then went to find a salesman and it was like pulling teeth. This was odd since I was the only customer in the showroom.

I too was surprised by the mpg numbers on the Fit Sport. It's a bit disappointing versus what it's competition is getting or rated at. You're in Peoria right? There is a good Honda dealer in Bloomington, IL just off of I-55 on Veteran's Parkway. A friend of mine has bought multiple Hondas there and has had a good experience every time.

Yeah, the dsg on the tdi was an epic fail for us, manual fixed all ills as usual.

The current golf tdi has a nice suspension set-up, perhaps more compliant than a gti for daily use and even pulled better a much better slalom than a gti on the edmunds test track.

My tdi posts start here:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpo...7&postcount=51

insideline tdi>gti handling surprise here:
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...wagen-gti.html

interesting that the shifter is better in the TDI, I didnt like the one in the GTI. On paper i like the TDI but I dont drive enough to make use of it, couple mile work commute.

That's really bad. The 3600lb a4 is rated 22/31, is awd and gets out of its own way with 258lbs of torque. Every passing day I like the a4 more and more (steering fix helps).

Still waiting on my vagcom to be returned so I can do the fix. And I'm still getting 30+ real mpg out of a tank.

25K+ and not even a rattle.

I realize I just cursed myself btw. Wait for it.....


Alex

Yup, I'm at 23k miles. Not much commuting so that's been easy on the car. But still, two winters, rough NYC/NNJ roads and not a rattle. I did get the driver's door strike adjusted to fix a slight wind whistle, it's been perfect otherwise. One of the best new cars I've ever bought. I get 30+ on highway tanks, about 24-26 on mixed ones, perhaps worst tank being 23mpg. I change oil every 5k as I may keep this one a while.

I was very surprised by the overall feel of the Golf TDI. It just felt very well sorted in just about every sense. It's the only car close that I like and have experience with the dealer service department that I'm comfortable with; except for maybe the Ford Focus, but that car is only a few grand less than the TDI so it really makes no sense.

Hm..

If this is a compliment to a Passat why not something a bit more on the fun side and a little less worry about practicality?

Also, FWIW, the Mazda 3 doesn't have the full compliment of Skyactiv technologies yet. Only the engine. The full suite of goodies is debuting on the Mazda CX-5 and will be rolled out on future Mazdas with:

- More efficient engines (lighter and better mpg)
- More efficient transmissions (lighter, lower friction)
- Light weight rigid chassis
- Improved, lighter suspension and steering

In any case if MPG is the bar, what about a Mazda2 (35mpg) or a Ford Fiesta (40mpg)?

The MINIs would be something I'd look at if I wanted seating for four and high-ish MPG. . . aren't those getting in the mid-to-high 30's?

The Mazda 3 is at 40mpg and better than the Mazda2 and Fiesta. I live in a land with no curves, fun only happens in a straight line and that kills MPG. Practicality is fun around here. :D

mazda3 is supposed to be the most fun of these econo boxes:dunno:

The Mazda 3 and Ford Focus actually get better mpg than the Mazda 2 and Ford Fiesta respectively... they can afford to put some fuel-saving features in the more expensive cars that they can't quite build into the pricing structure of the smaller ones.

Took further test drives yesterday. Unfortunately, the Mazda dealer did not have a manual skyactiv.

The Golf is fantastic. The Good:

• Seats (Front are cloth, but very good side bolsters)
• Noise / Vibration / Ride (At BMW levels, IMHO)
• Fit / Finish (Better than our 2006 330i)
• Radio (touch screen, better than good sound, easy to use)
• Controls (everything was intuitive and well weighted)
• Suspension (Sport suspension is standard, fantastic)
• Wheels (nice 17" alloys standard, very nice)
• Extra's (3/36 maintenance, heated seats)

The one gripe would be the transmission. I never missed a shift, but it is vague and rubbery. This is where I expect the Mazda to trump the VW. All reports claim the skyactive manual to be on par with the Miata transmission and to be the best in a non-sports car; universal praise.

I took both cars for a 16 mile drive, mainly focusing on NVH. There is a good chance I'll be driving a lot for work over the next year and it will be a lot of boring interstate driving; I'll also be on the phone a bit while driving so I wanted to try out the bluetooth over broken concrete in very windy conditions. The Golf won again, although it wasn't a fault of the Mazda's bluetooth; the Mazda has a harsher ride and more cabin noise which comes through over the bluetooth and causes you to raise the volume in the cabin.

I won't be able to judge the handling of the Mazda until I drive one with a real transmission, but it has promise. The Mazda3 is at least a notch below the Golf in every category (except potentially the transmission) Two things that really bugged me were:

• Controls (not intuative at all)
• Fit / Finish (fairly low rate, and the radio / info screens look very slapdash espcially the fact that the two different info screens are different types (LCD v LED) and different background and typeface colors and different sizes, right next to each other)

That all being said, the Mazda3 is just under $20k and should return 40+ on the highway and 30 around town. The Golf is $25k and will return better MPG (+10 or so) but Diesel is extremely expensive now in comparison to RUG.

One other thing I really liked about the Golf, was the transmission info. In the upper right corner it displays the gear you are in and a little dot if you are in the right gear. If you should shift to another gear an up or down arrow will appear. I found this very helpful since the TDI engine has a fairly unique powerband in comparison to most gas motors. I found myself wondering, "should I could shift up now?" and then the arrow would confirm. I think this would be great for the wife as she would often ask for shifting advice and this seems fairly well sorted.

I also compared the two cars side by side at the Mazda dealer. The Mazda is a wee bit longer, but has worse rear seats and rear seat room when the driver seat is where I'd keep it. The Mazda has a noticeably larger trunk floor, but the usable space is only slightly larger due to the highly sloped rear hatch of the Mazda3. Again, the fit and finish was obviously better all around on the Golf.

I won't make the decision to buy for at least 3 week, maybe as late as February. It will depend on the Wife's and My pending promotions and the determination if I'll be driving a lot for work.

I'd recommend the Golf TDI to anybody looking for a good commuter type car on a relative budget.

Keep resale in mind. That TDI will shock you at how well it'll hold it's value.


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Going to test drive the exact same cars, found a skyactiv 6mt sedan to test drive and a local dealer has 5k off a golf TDi 6mt

Also the idea of owning a vw scares me but I have heard of the TDI resale values. That why I was kind of surprised to see 5k off but it is a 2011 with a manual.

The TDI sounds like an absolute no brainer, even if it is a bit more expensive.

+1 especially if you can get 5k off and a manual

you will never notice it on a test drive, but we found the golf seats to be very uncomfortable on long drives.

We used to call them "200 mile" seats.





But you can always swap in a pair of Recaro's

Are you serious?! They were very close to MSRP a while back. I'd imagine they're still expensive here in the Northeast, SoCal folks must not like golf diesels.

tdi seats =/= base golf seats
tdi suspension =/= base golf suspension

There are a few dealers in Chicago and STL that are just a hundred or so over invoice. I e-mailed the links to my SA to set the tone when it's time.

While I don't have a lot of miles on the seats, they are a decided upgrade over the standard Golfs.

I wonder if the manual transmission in the new model is any better than the previous. It was bad enough that it would keep me from buying an otherwise great car.

like optimus prime mentioned somewhere above, MT is supposed to be miata like based on the reviews I have read. Probably getting my hopes built up to high since the miata MT is the best I have driven.

I test drove the mazdaspeed 3 a little while back. On the first shift into 2nd, just out of the dealership, the knob came off in my hand. :lol

Invoice or near it should be achievable on a '12. But $5k off?

Sometimes japanese brand dealerships unscrew shift knobs, perhaps they left it loose? I've test driven an s2000 with no knob (just the threads!) and an rx8 with a loose knob. They were worried about the knobs being stolen out of the showroom. :rolleyes:

I have been hijacking his thread, that was me who posted that