I saw one yesterday too...
I had not seen one before a couple of weeks back.
Now I see them a couple of times a week.

Guess there are plenty of folks out there spending some serious coin on a car ( that I consider a toy). For each his/her own.

Motoman's neighbor just took delivery Model S and he had a chance to drive it last night. He likes it...

Just spoke with a local Model S owner and arranged a meet-up this weekend and we'll go for a drive.

Small world -- he's worked with my mom off and on for the last 30 years!

That IS a small world.

OK... So I get a chance to drive a Tesla tomorrow.

I have a bunch of owner/buyer perspective things to ask. How the ownership experience has been, what issues he's had with the car, how the trade-in process worked, a recommended electrician to install a 240V/50A outlet in the garage, etc.

Any other questions you guys suggest?

Just got back from a nice drive in a Tesla. Let me just say WOW.

The owner was generous enough pick me up at my house and we then drove out to Bartlet Lake and back, which is almost 40 miles round trip. He drove for a couple miles and showed me a few things about the car. We then swapped and I drove the rest, spending about an hour with the car.

The instant torque is amazing. When he was driving, he floored it a couple times and I've never experienced being pushed back in my seat instantly like that. When I was driving, I mostly took it easy from a stop. But a couple times he insisted on having me punch it. Going from 60 to 85 is nearly instant.

He had it set so that the regen braking was on max. That mostly felt like engine breaking, but in a lower gear. I rarely had to use the brake pedal except when coming to a complete stop -- and you can very easily modulate speed with just the gas pedal (there is no transmission -- just a single fixed gear, and the motor can rev to 16,000 RPM).

The car is overall very quiet. The lack of engine noise was strange -- and there is just a subtle whine on strong acceleration, and a faint hint of tire/road noise.

When I first started driving, I didn't know how he had the car set. Steering felt great -- nice and firm (and the wheel is very nicely made -- thick with thumb rests, not unlike the E46 M3 wheel). Turns out he had the car in Sport, and while I was driving, he made a change -- and put the car in comfort mode, and the steering immediately became over boosted. I then switched it to Normal for the rest of the drive. Normal was very good also (very neutral, without a boosted feeling, but not overly firm). Ride was excellent -- it feels like a large sport sedan.

I didn't play too much with the screen while driving. But it looks usable probably wouldn't take too long to get used to. All the major functions are accessible via the steering wheel scroll wheels/buttons and a menu system on the instrument cluster.

I've been back home now for over 30 min and still am jittery from the adrenaline. All of you need to go test one of these.

For now perserveration continues. Need to sleep on this drive before making a decision...

So what color are you getting?

I just saw one a few aisles over from where I was parked at one of my kids schools and was trying to figure out what kind of car it was ... I was thinking it might be a Maserati and then as I got closer I saw no exhaust pipes and realized wow this must be the new Tesla S ...

That is one beautiful car ... I happen to see the same car this evening ... just a really great looking car.

I also have heard that it is a very nice tight community and that tesla owners offer each other their place to charge your car if you are on a long trip.

Sounds great !!

OK... Referencing the above from the "last thing you bought thread" to continue here.

Even though I had a chance to drive a Tesla a couple weeks ago, I had already bought a ticket to LA to go get a test drive. That trip was this weekend -- I flew over Friday afternoon, went to a Nissan Z event hosted by Motoman last night (he interviewed the designer of the current Z in front of about 150 members of the LA and San Diego Z clubs...).

Today was test drive day. Motoman's neighbor took delivery of a 60kW version less than 2 weeks ago, so we stopped by and he took us for a ride and let me drive a couple miles. I'm glad I did -- I couldn't tell the difference between it and the 80kW I drove a couple weeks ago (Tesla maps the motor management slightly different in the 60kw, so even though it has the same motor and associated hardware, its just a bit slower 0-60...). He had a car similarly spec'd to what I'd spec -- same color and 19" wheels. I'm glad I got a chance to see those wheels, since all the ones in Tesla stores have the 21" wheels, and the 19s have a different design. I liked them.

We then went to one of the Tesla stores in LA where I had a 1:00pm reservation for a test drive. They were fully booked, so I'm glad I scheduled ahead of time. They took us out to the Tesla paddock in the mall garage, where there were 2 demonstrators and a couple of customer-owned cars being charged. The demonstrator was a Performance 85kW -- which has a 0-60 of 4.4 seconds (compared to 5.6 for the "regular" 85 and 5.9 for the 60). Before starting on the test, they give a walkthrough of the controls, then let you drive the entire time (not the "I have to drive this off the lot, then we'll let you drive" thing common with regular dealerships). The test loop took a good 15 minutes, including about 2 miles on the freeway. The P85 is incredibly fast -- scary, get me in trouble, fast. I'm glad I decided that the P85 is too expensive for me...

When the test was done, I went ahead and put the reservation in. I'd already made the decision and almost put the res in the other night. Doing it at the store really was no different than at home -- they have a couple iMacs in the store and we pulled up my My Tesla account and we went on and reserved it -- which I could have done at home too.

The next step will be to finalize the order. I can do that at any time, but production is not scheduled until after its finalized. I may just go ahead and finalize tomorrow, but still am thinking through whether to add an additional option (factory paint armor -- basically clear bra...).

Color will be white, with tan interior. Will include the panoramic roof, 60kW battery, supercharging option, and the tech package.

Very cool.

I'd ad the armor, but I'm goofy like that. Be warned (as someone with it on a white car) that it will be pretty obvious, and it will appear yellow'ish over time.

Tesla's configurator warns that its visible on white, so I'm leaning against it -- the $950 can go a long way toward chip repair over a couple years...

Here's a couple sample shots of the config I have in so far (but not finalized...):

Congrats! Definitely looking forward to seeing what you think about it once you get it.

Rode my motorcycle next to one through Holland Tunnel on Thursday night... Out in the 'wild', they look great. Congrats, ZBB!

That is kind of pricey, you can probably get it done for less elsewhere unless it's the full front end wrap.

Maybe they wrap the whole car?

Ok, that isn't as much fun when I know the person I'm making fun of won't see it.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/01/t...attery-option/

Sounds like the Supercharger is going to be standard.

Hadn't seen that yet. Takes $2k off the config I've done... Supposedly Tesla will be making a major announcement on Tues. I was waiting to finalize until then...

Edit: Looks like the supercharger hardware is included on all Model S, but it will be disabled via software unless you pay the $2k. Now I need to find out if this is something I can have turned on later. There are no superchargers within driving distance for me -- but once they build the network out, I could see using them fairly frequently...

So the story JST posted is all over the Tesla forums. Here's some more info from that:

1) Tesla announced that the just-ended quarter will be their first profitable quarter. They sold >4,750 cars in the quarter (over 250 more than they had previously estimated).

2) They cancelled the 40kWh version of the Model S -- only 4% of orders were for the 40kWh, so they decided it wasn't worth the final development. As of today, they are no longer taking orders for the 40kWh. If someone already had one on order, they are being given a choice of a) changing the order to get a 60kWh for $10k more, or b) taking delivery of a 60kWh that is software limited to the range the 40kWh would have been, and they have a future option of paying $11k to have the range limit removed.

3) They announced that all Model S built to date and going forward will include the Supercharger hardware. It is enabled by standard on all 85kWh cars, but it is disabled via software on all 60kWh unless a) you pay $2000 when ordering the car, or b) pay $2500 in the future to remove the software limitation. Previously, this was an option on the 60kWh -- but was thought to have been a hardware difference that could not be retrofitted.

So what does this mean for me? I had already decided to get the 60kWh battery since the 40kWh would have been a bit limiting in range for what I do (especially being conservative and assuming some loss of range over the life of the battery). I had also decided to get the Supercharger option on the car for future proofing for use at both Tesla's Superchargers and potentially at CHAdeMO chargers* -- but now I'm going to re-think that. Basically will compare buying the car with and without the Supercharger option, and if without figuring out the payback if I were to buy it later. This would have the advantage of not enabling it until Tesla adds Superchargers in AZ or brings out the CHAdeMO adapter.

*Regarding CHAdeMO: This is a DC fast charging standard used in Japan, but also becoming common in the US and Europe (including 13 in the Phoenix area). Tesla has announced they will include a CHAdeMO adapter on cars sold in Japan, and as an option in Europe. Its likely they'll offer it in the US too. Charging won't be as fast as a Supercharger (which can charge up to 300 mph -- miles of range added per hour of charging) -- but would likely add 150-200 mph...

Wow. That kind of practice really turns me off to the company/brand.

Which part? The part where they offered a model they discontinued (but will still honor the orders they have already taken from customers) or the part where they put options on that are disabled unless you pay for them?

So Tesla announced a leasing package today (technically a loan, but it has a buyback clause at a specified residual). Interestingly, they are using a residual based on the Mercedes S Class. This may be worth looking into...

Info and calculator is here... http://www.teslamotors.com/true-cost-of-ownership

And a link to the guaranteed resale value doc. Looks like 43% residual after 3 years... http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/def...-guarantee.pdf

They also released a "performance plus" package for the P85. $6k. Not interested...

Edit:
I looked into this a bit more. Its not a lease. Its a loan combined with a buyback option between 36 and 39 months (so Tesla will buy the car back at the owner's option). The buyback option requires financing through the Tesla loan partners (Wells Fargo or US Bank) -- and holding that loan in good standing for a minimum of 6 months. But they include the federal tax credit as part of the down payment (otherwise I'd have to front that...). I'm thinking this may be the way to go -- finance it through them, then refinance 6 months later if I can get a better deal elsewhere. That would lock in the buyback option at the 43% residual. The downside is that the interest rate is about 1.2% higher than some of the credit union deals avail now (2.95% vs 1.75%), but the difference is ~$300 over six months (hence why it may make sense to refinance just past the 6 month mark...).

I'll have to update my financial models tonight before I finalize the order. Glad I waited a couple days...

I don't really understand what is revolutionary about this. Sounds like a typical balloon payment financing structure that everyone in NY was using for a while and that BMW introduced many years ago.

I suppose the financing of the downpayment amount based on tax credits is sort of interesting, but hardly "revolutionary."

As for S-class residual, that sounds like a marketing gimmick more than anything else. I would think that the true resale value of the S-class is pretty bad--expensive cars like that depreciate pretty rapidly in the absence of any subvention on the part of the manufacturer. Or is the residual the same as Mercedes captive finance arm is offering on leases? And, if so, does it change from month to month?

All of that said, this seems like the way to buy one of these cars. Having a put option on an expensive, relatively untested piece of tech that might be obsolete in 36 mos is pretty nice peace of mind.

Might have to look into this.

EDIT: Teach me to quote something without reading it. The guaranteed resale doc answers many of my questions, above. 43 percent after three years does not seem particularly compelling.

The Tesla I would want is $84,770 (including the credit). That works out to be $1342/mo using the guaranteed buy back. That's a lot of cheddar.

Yep... I agree on all your points. Except that I don't think this is a balloon loan like BMW offers -- just a regular loan with the residual. I'll have to include that in the model (ie compare the amortization schedule with the 43% residual at 36-39 months)...

I think they decided on the S class since it doesn't have a particularly high residual -- so its a CYA on their part. But at least it puts a floor on the residual of a Model S. But it sounds good from a marketing perspective (ie we'll guarantee this will be worth the same as leasing a Mercedes). It may end up holding its value better. But if it drops more than that, its basically "residual insurance".

Mine is $72,540 ($80,040 before tax credit) -- and shows a payment of $1184. So that payment assumes financing ~$72k (ie 90% of the purchase price less rebate).

My own calcs include a higher down payment (ie after selling the Boxster). Plus I've already paid the $5k reservation. I'll need to re-do my financial model and loan estimate tonight based on this.

But I think it makes sense to use this program. Less cash up front (since they count the tax credit as part of the down payment).

More the latter and a little bit of a different conclusion on the former.

Tesla's costs are the same no matter what I pay since the parts are the same, it's just a matter of whether a figurative switch is flipped to the left or right.

If the 40kWh version represents 4% of their orders and they sold 4,750 last quarter and the current wait time is 3 months (I know ZBB posted an anticipated wait tim, but I can't find it right now, so let's just go with 3 months), that suggests 190 40kWh cars currently on order that no have the option of taking a hobbled 60kWh car or forking out an additional $10k. It costs Tesla nothing either way. I'm sure Tesla sees it as an opportunity for up to $1.9M in free profit, perhaps even more from those that pay another 10% more later. Tesla could have just as easily said, "Well, no more 40kWh cars, but if you have one on order as of this morning, you're going to get a 60kWh car instead. No extra charge." Instead, they said, "Well, that wasn't gonna make us enough money, so we want to see how much further we can stick your hand down your pocket."

If I buy the more expensive version, I'm going to feel like a dolt when I meet some guy at cars and coffee who bought the cheaper version and hacked his so it's the same as mine for a whole lot less money.

If I buy the less expensive version, I will always have the internal debate about whether to hack it and run warranty and DMCA-violation risks...until the warranty runs out and I hack it anyway. And I'll always be a little pissed about the whole thing.

They should of never mentioned it publicly.

My company does the same thing, makes a full feature chip then disables part of it if the customer does not want to pay for all the features.

Sounds better to me, gives you the option to the buy the cheaper model and hack it. Kind of like buying the cheaper turbo version of a car and turning up the boost.

I don't see it any differently than a variety of software purchase options that exist on a bunch of levels. In fact, I don't see it any differently than the performance options from BMW that will turn up the boost on your turbo. Even options you would not normally think would be built like this are starting to appear - some car companies are switching Nav to "dealer install" and you can add it any time. It's a software flip of a switch.

It would have been better to never have sold the option they discontinued before they built any, but this doesn't bother me all that much. Getting stranded without a battery . . . that will make for interesting stories.

"So, there I was, stranded with what I thought was a dead battery half a mile from home. I called Tesla's world famous roadside assistance customer support line to send me a flatbed and you know what they told me? They told me that my battery was holding a charge that would take me another 50 miles, but if I wanted to use it, I had to give them a credit card number so they could place an eleven thousand dollar charge."

Yeah...can you imagine the stories?

We're not going to agree and we're not going to change each minds. I'm okay with you being wrong on this, just as I'm sure that you can be okay with me being wrong on it, too (if I were, which I'm not because you're wrong, not me).

I wasn't trying to change your mind. I was just curious about why you felt that way and explained why I saw it differently. :dunno:

I do think Tesla is going to have an issue when they have stranded cars with charge available. I suppose their saving grace in that situation will be that they can't enable the car to use the remaining charge remotely.

Okay. I'd imagine that your view is probably more prevalent than mine.

I don't think that saving grace will get them very far when they get sued after someone dies as a result. I have no idea how it will happen, yet I am sure it will. :eeps:

I don't think they'll have that situation... The Tesla forum thread on this seems to think that what they will do is just cap the charge at ~66%. So instead of being able to charge up to 60kWh, they would just stop charging at 40kWh. So once the battery drains to 0, there isn't any magical extra juice left.

But this will only be a small number of cars -- perhaps 400-600 cars will have this artificial software cap (assuming 4% of ~10-15k orders before they cut off ordering capability on Apr 1). And a portion of them will either upgrade before delivery (for $10k) or after delivery (for $11k) to the full capacity.

I'll comment more on what I think of this later. Overall, I think they handled it well. The downside is that the lowest priced Model S is now $62k, vs $52k before (after Federal rebate...).

The optional supercharger access being a software restriction doesn't bother me too much. I think I'm going to order it anyway, but I could see some people holding off until the superchargers are more widely avail...

Why is this different for an electric car? ICE cars can easily run out of gas, and I can't remember any news articles about someone's death just because they ran out of gas :dunno:

As for the cap at 40kWh -- remember that car will still have a range of ~150 miles. That's basically double what a Nissan Leaf or Focus Electric have. But Leaf and Focus buyers don't have a future option to switch on ~50% additional range.

Not here. Sounds pretty crazy to me that all of the parts are already included with the car and it's literally just flipping a check box that costs thousands of dollars. Really dumb.

Did it bother you when the E90 325i and 330i were out, both with 3.0L NA engines with the only difference being the engine programming capping the power on the 325i? Then the 328i that came later that was also an NA 3.0L with a third programmed level of output?

I can think of more than a few news stories of people that get stranded in their cars and freeze to death after running out of gas shortly before being found. Good thing the range of electric cars increases so much in deathly cold weather. Oh, whoops.

I put 10 gallons of gas in a 10 gallon tank, use 10 gallons and run out, fuck me.

I put 10 gallons of gas in a 10 gallon tank, use 7 gallons and run out because the gas tank manufacturer wants to charge me more to access the last 3 gallons, fuck you.

From what you said in response to Rob, it sounds like Tesla will figuratively put a 3 gallon airbag in the tank so it can only be filled to 7 gallons so it's not quite same as my scenario, but hopefully my point is still clear.

The other cars you mention have a hard limit and are not comparable to the S or Tesla's business practices. If Ford and Nissan were doing the same thing, selling a car with an artificially reduced range accessible only for an obscene amount of money for nothing more a few button presses or keystrokes, I'd be just as turned off and disinclined to give them any of my money.

Also, as you say, it's probably just a few hundred cars, so why doesn't Tesla give the, complimentary upgrades? If they did, we're not having this conversation. It's not like it would cost them anything. It's the same part. The knob is just turned this way or that that.