Considering a used Model S as our next car
 

I still think they are some of the best looking 4 door cars on the road right now (up there with the new Panamera and Audi A6/7). Have driven a few over the past 7 years (just short test drives) and always enjoyed the experience. You can now find some 2016 90Ds for less than 50k (with the additional 4/50 Tesla used warranty). I've had on-again off-again interest in them since 2013 or so.

For that price/performance/practicality/warranty the only other cars I could find were a 2014 Audi S7 from CarMax (45k) or a new Kia Stinger GT (~40k). Criteria is fast hatchbacks/wagons with adaptive cruise control and no 4 cyl engines under 50k (and not ugly a la BMW 3/5 GT).

But the more I research, the more downsides I find. Starting from the fact that they are no longer re-conditioning on used cars and you can't even inspect it before putting down a 1k non-refundable deposit (and test driving is completely out of the question apparently). You can request pictures for a car via email but what you get back are typically low res and blurry. There could be a tennis ball size dent on a panel and you wouldn't be able to tell. Some people have luck getting Tesla to fix damage, but most of the time they'll just tell you it's "as is" from what i've read. You can switch your deposit to another car once. It's also not uncommon for it to take months to get your title after purchasing. So it's basically like dealing with a very shady used car dealer.

Then there's all the stuff that affects any Model S (few interior storage cubbies, no sunshade for the roof, poor media player/bluetooth integration, no way to mirror phone based media/mapping apps on the center screen, uncomfortable rear seat, poor panel fit, high chance of random issues, understaffed service depts, UI getting worse with software updates, who knows if Tesla will last the duration of the warranty, etc).

There's definitely a fascination with this vehicle over other choices, but I can't help thinking I'd be somewhat crazy to pull the trigger. It doesn't help that my current car is nearly flawless and does so many things well. OTOH, Tesla owners have some of the highest overall satisfaction with their cars (including the Tesla owners here)

Not sure whether I want to be talked in or out of this. :)

Tesla has not even remotely figured out the high-end preowned car game yet. There are plenty of unpleasant stories out there if you do a tiny bit of Googling.

I personally wouldn't do it, but that's a lot of car for $50k.

Can’t speak to the Tesla CPO experience since I’ve only ever bought new... I would suggest seeing what is avail locally to you and asking to look at the cars before putting the deposit down. Hopefully you will find one in good shape.

But I can speak about the Model S ownership experience. It’s a great car, but huge. Facelifted S have a center console, and most 2016s are facelifted (came out in April builds, and Tesla uses the calendar year for model years). Plenty of storage even without the center console - just not at the driver seat. I kept a small box on the floor to keep things that otherwise would go in a console (pens, tire gauge, etc). As for no shade screen on the roof, that was never a problem (and I lived in AZ most of the time I had the car) - the roof glass is shielded and tinted so there is no heat or glare problem. Tesla does sell some accessory screens that pop in if it is a problem, but I’ve never seen one at Tesla gatherings...

Bluetooth integration works well - I essentially always used my phone to listen to podcasts. The media player and steaming via Slacker and TuneIn also works well. I do wish Tesla would build in CarPlay and Android Auto to give owners a better phone intgration experience though...

I say get one.

There’s a lot of stuff that Tesla hssmtt figures out yet, or is in the process of figuring out.

I actually had a really positive experience with my CPO Model S; the car was in as-new condition and they delivered it with the same attention to detail as either of my new ones. That was a couple of years ago, though, so I don’t know what changes they’ve made to the program since.

As you know, Tesla has over the past six years grown from essentially hand-delivering cars by truck (see ZBBs first) to mass producing a mid-range luxury car. There are a lot of growing pains associated with that. Plus, they’ve been kind of playing around with the CPO program, so that part has been especially variable.

I haven’t taken my Model 3 in for service yet, so I don’t know how they’re coping with a 10-20X increase in volume. My guess is...it’s a challenge.

The good news is that none of my Tesla’s have needed that much in the way of service; the first (from 2013) was the worst, but even that was a better car than the 535 that preceded it, reliability-wise. The other two have been very solid.

I can’t tell you whether to do it or not. I will encourage you, if you decide to do it, to go in with a more open mind than you would with other cars. The car itself will require you to do some things differently, and the sales and service will be enthusiastic but will also have lumps and bumps. If that sounds like something you’d rather not deal with, I get it.

But I can also tell you that the car is amazing, and there’s nothing at all like it on the road. The idea that the A7 is a competitor is kind of laughable; after driving a Tesla all of those cars feel like clanking throwbacks. Like driving a Stanley Steamer. I’ve thought sort of generally about what I might replace mine with if I needed to, and aside from something much sportier (like a Giulia or a 911) I draw a blank.

If you’re going to buy a Stinger, though, I’d get a used one. The drop in value I’ve read is precipitous.

Considering a used Model S as our next car
 

Regarding Bluetooth integration, from what I understand you can still only do forward/back/pause. Even my old 2011 bmw allowed you to scroll through /search artist/album/playlist/etc and would show album art as well. My current car will mirror and allow full control over certain apps such as pandora via Bluetooth (including creating a station / thumbs up/down) - even without CarPlay. It’s kind of ridiculous that they have time to develop fart apps but haven’t really improved their phone integration since 2013. I know Musk hates Apple but there’s still lots of room for improvement even without CarPlay.

Even if you find a local car, they often store them offsite so you can’t even see it by walking around the lot.

Fair points. It’s kind of one of those cars that doesn’t really make sense until you’ve owned one I guess.

Speaking of resale, what’s your guess as to trade in value of a 2016 pre facelift 90D in 4 years? 25k (50% of current retail price) sounds right to me.

The one nice thing about the current used program is that they essentially have a reverse auction on them where prices are reduced by some amount each day.

For sure. I’ve read a bunch of the horror stories. It sounds pretty bad.

That's probably mostly internet noise. For each horror story that gets posted, that are most likely 10-100x satisfied owners that never post. This isn't unique to Tesla -- how many times do good stories get posted on forums?

I'd say ~$25k is probably a fair estimate. Depending on exact specs and original price, $25k is somewhere between 20-27% of original. If its 7 years old and 90-100k miles by then, that sounds about right.

For comparison, my 2013 S 60 had an original price of $82k, and I sold it to CarMax for $27k. It had ~93k miles and was 5.25 years old. That's 33% of original price...

Yes -- back/forward/play/pause. But that's all I needed. It would automatically connect and start playing when I got back in the car. I really only used my podcast app (I use Overcast…). For other streaming, I would just use Slacker or occasionally Tune-In in the car. I had a handful of "favorited" Slacker searches, and the mix of music was decent...

Musk "promised" some sort of mirroring capability years ago, but he also promised more apps for the car. Vaporware...