Time for a slow 981 search
 

I've learned to get over the 981 prices. They are what they are. New ones with an H6 are $100k now, so I don't see the few NA 981's getting cheaper all of a sudden. Supply is incredibly small.

Recently I had been debating the merits of getting a new ND. I want the new engine and the early transmissions scare me. Also, the 100 AE MX-5 looks great. But that means spending mid $30k's on a Miata. It would be very nice but probably won't scratch the Boxster itch properly. I think I rather pay extra for a used 981S. A 7yo Boxster is bound to not depreciate as much as a new Miata.

Anyhow, cars like this make me think that if I am patient I should be able to score a good 981S somewhere between 40-50k, but hopefully closer to 40k. I don't think I want to make a move until Spring of next year since I still worry about the macro impact of COVID, but I think I'd be open to the right opportunity sooner if it comes my way.

So please let me know if in your browsing you come across a 981S with the following specs aside from the obvious MT requirement:

- Color: Open to any color, but I rather stay away from black, silver, or gray (notable exception is GT silver+red top/interior). Bonus points for fun colors like yellow, red, bright blue, and even white.
- Interior: Naturally, more leather is best. Would prefer black. Bonus points for Cocoa. No tan. Red only allowed with silver/gray combo above.
- I prefer sports/adaptive seats but I'll take anything.
- I really would like to have heated seats and bonus points for heated steering wheel. Was it even available? I thought it was.
- Obviously bonus points for anything performance oriented (PASM, Sport chrono, sport exhaust, etc.).
- These are my preferred wheels, but again, I can't be picky:
https://www.pcarmarket.com/static/me...60x0-0.5x0.jpg

If for some miracle you guys spot a GTS for anywhere near 50k or even 55k, let me know as well.

I do want a nice car, so while mileage doesn't bother me too much, I want a clean history and good cosmetic condition.

All your requirements were very close to mine when looking. I never came across anything with non boring colors, manual, nice 19 inch wheels for less then 47-49 and I looked for over a year. If your willing to go that high you should be able to find one without to much struggle. I was not willing to spend that much on a soon to be 7-8yo car.

Edit: I honestly love the 981S in white/black. With the body lines it just looks so clean and on point.

I am a fan of the Boxster in white. I had one before. It works on a summer car.

I know what you mean about the price. I'm hoping they come down a little and I am also willing to go up a little. Don't make me doubt myself.

Again, the "new Miata for $36k" thing helped me with the mental justification. My wife seemed totally on board with a new Miata, so she should be ok with a slightly pricier Boxster.

https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1175898

all done. enjoy. EDIT: didn't notice the ad was from earlier this year. Just hunt down the buyer and make him an offer he can't refuse.

I saw that one. Other than the interior blue bits (which is fixable) I quite like it, but I read that post as being sold. Last post was many months ago, so I suspect it's gone.

This is all a reminder that I don't drive my 981S nearly enough. It matches most/all of what FC is looking for... But, the big but, is I can't think of a single another car around $45k (or heck $60k) that is going to be as satisfying on a number of levels (sporty, 2-seater, comfy on the highway, H6, also the more than decent optioning on mine)... I feel like if I doubt my sale, it would be nearly impossible to find a similar one, so I keep... Strange.

I've also thought of going to a 991.2 after these four nice years with the 981S. But that car is going to sit as well and if I'm lucky I'll pay $30k on top, if not $40k with tax etc. So cannot really justify that either.

Big if... If, Josh points out the right 991.2, if I fall for it, then yes, the 981S will go on the market. I'm ok with somewhere in the mid-40's, not exactly sure where. I do think the GTS premium is not really justified if the S options are in place (also remember the annoying in-cabin sound boom that I'd have to delete if I got the GTS, drove two back in 2016).

Wouldn't hurt to reach out to the seller and get the buyer's contact info. I've had varying degrees of good luck with that approach. Especially with your flexible timing, if the new buyer wants to hold it for a few months, all the better, as long as they reach out to you when it is time to sell.

I don't know what the anniversary edition Miata is going for, but the new ND I would buy would have run about $27k immediately before COIVD.

Beyond that, I recall once asking on this forum whether the multiples of $ more that a used 987 cost (at the time of the question) vs what the NA Miata I was driving at the time were objectively defensible. I think JST said they were not.

I know that every gen Boxster is way nicer and offers so much more in terms of features, power, grip, (or less, in terms of road noise with the top up), and so on. What I don't know and am in constant search of figuring out is what makes the Boxster better that it's worth that much more money. That doesn't mean it's dumb to buy a Boxster or anything like that. I just can't figure it out.

And for that matter, if the object is buying a fun car, I can't make the argument for a new ND vs an NA or NB (I do think the ND is much better at doing what it does than the NC, though).

I don't know. I struggle with this.

I agree with the wheel choice, I have 2 sets of those for the 991 (silver and shiny black) and a set of Satin black on the Cayman ... great design, easy to clean and gives the car a good look.

On the 992 I do prefer the newer Carrera Classic wheels ...

As far as your hunt, you picked a really cool car ... you really can't go wrong with a Boxster.

How do you feel about silver with a red roof :eeps: I might know a guy :D

BTW isn't the one in that picture similar to WDC's ex ?

If it weren't because I owned one already and have had two P-cars of that vintage, I'd be looking at a late 987S. Heck, I probably still should.

But I know I won't be able to help myself from lusting over a Boxster every time I see one. The 2016+ Boxsters hold no appeal to me because I want an NA one and those are too much money.

The intelligent thing to do, of course, is nothing. I have a very nice M3 that I really like AND a toy NC that is fun and costs very little to own and operate.

I haven't driven an ND. In fact, it's been decades since I've driven a Miata of any kind. I remember them being extremely hilarious fun, though kind of slow.

And, yeah, it's hard to justify rationally paying 10x a cheap Miata for a 987, though I think it's a lot easier to justify 1.5 to 2X an ND for a 981.

That said...the Boxster is just such a good car. It's so much nicer to drive, in terms of fine detail, than any BMW I've driven--I used to prefer it to the E90 M3, and I still prefer it to the F80. The 987 and the 981 are pretty different, but my short drives in 981s leave me convinced that that inherent goodness remains in those cars.

It's the kind of car you can buy and keep for 10 years or more, and every now and then think "I don't drive that enough, I should sell it," and then decide "no, I just like it too much and I'll never find anything better for the price." Ask me how I know.

I still want a 911, but I think I mostly want a 911 because I haven't had one. I don't think the 911 is a better sports car even if it's faster.

Now THAT is an interesting debate right there !!

I think the majority here prefer a Boxster/Cayman to the 911 ... me ... I prefer the 911.

Well, I had an '07 987S and I'd take it over the 997TT. I wish I still had that Boxster. But for the minimal use and how new it was at the time, I simply could not afford it.

You can certainly option them sub 30k, but I would want most/all the bells and whistles. I'm just being honest.

Now you're speaking my language. I've had a similar debate going for almost three years, with the extra wrinkle that I already own a late 987S in ideal (for us) spec.

First off, I love Miatas, but I can't see replacing this car with a Miata. They just don't have enough room for long-distance travel, and that's a major use case for us. Second, it's almost equal dollars to go from our car to a new ND. Maybe a used ND2?

Second, I'm with you (FC) on the later four cylinder cars. It seems like they will depreciate faster than any Porsche in recent memory, but the turbo 4 ruins the car, IMO. The sound and feel are all wrong for me.

Third, 981s are great. A little big, and a little disconnected-feeling, but great. The interior and exterior styling are a big step up. But man, I have a hard time ponying up $50k for a used car especially when it only does things *a little* better than a car I already own and love. Some unseen force pulls me back when I see a used vehicle price with five digits and a '5' up front, particularly when I know the number my car would sell for starts with a '2' :lol:

I guess if I were in your shoes with an M3 in the garage I'd have a really hard time pulling the trigger on another expensive sports car. I don't really see the point. Don't they execute pretty much the same mission? Maybe that's just an indicator of how detached I've become from modern BMWs. I don't really see the point of the M3, as it exists today :(

I agree on your points re: ND vs. Boxster. I've had one and it's a very different vehicle. It's just MUCH nicer. My struggle for a while has been and (continues to be) the high acquisition cost of a 981. I agree. 50k is A LOT for a used car like that. I have no beef owning a 6-10 yo Boxster. But they should not cost that much. I know it was over a decade ago and bought as a steal in the depths of a recession, but the fact that I got a not-quite 2yo 987S loaded and CPO for $40k, makes it tough to swallow >$40k for a 7yo car. But these are different circumstances and supply is much smaller, so I expect the value to hold. The real penalty should be seen as the "extra" $10k tied up on the car.

As for the M3, well, I have young kids with activities. Often times friends need rides to and from games.

If I am being honest, I do have some regrets for not having just bought a GTI instead of the M3 (though I put a MASSIVE amount of value to that ED trip). I had a feeling this may come up. Kids are now walking to school so the sedan is not as needed, and COVID has only made things worse. But I love having it and I love the setup with the Miata. It just looks dumb if I get the 981S.

An additional complication is that the Miata is the designated winter beater. If it goes then I have to commute more in winter in the M3 when that resumes.

But again, since this is likely not to happen until next spring/summer, by then I will have had the M3 for 3 years, so if it becomes a less ideal choice after 3 years of use, that's not that big a deal.

I somehow thought you'd sold your Boxster, happy to hear you still have it.

I would have had a 987.2 if I could but they were very hard to find in 2015-16 for what I thought were "reasonable" prices.

Subjectively:

The 987.2 has some major advantages over the 981:
- Better steering feel (hydraulic)
- Simpler cabin/narrower car
- Slightly more playful drive (less smooth susp?)
- Better gearing/none of this 20" nonsense
- A real handbrake, none of this e-brake nonsense

The 981 has
- Better outside looks (especially on the boxster, less on the cayman)
- Better cabin, perhaps comfier seats
- Smoother shifter
- Proper firm brakes
- Perhaps more settled/planted drive; smoother suspension
- A bit better engine sound, non-PSE to non-PSE

There is not much upgrade there if the 987.2 is in good shape. The engines are the same, the gearing and steering are better on the 987.

It comes down to whether you need to carry more than 1 person someplace. Obviously the Boxster can't do that. In every other way, the Boxster is the more fun car to drive; I'm not even sure that the M3 is better on trips, because I find that car weirdly tiring to drive on the highway. But really, I remember driving a 986 and an E36 M3 back to back (ish) in 2001 and coming to the same conclusion. I don't think the intended mission of the M3 has changed that much, even if it's porked up a lot over the years and basically turned into an E39 M5.

I take FC's point that it feels extravagant to have both an M3 and a Boxster, and there's some merit to the idea of selling the M3, getting a 981, and replacing the M3 with a GTI (which would do better in the winter, as well). Selling the M3 would also let you avoid expensive out-of-warranty costs in a few years.

But the M3, as unfavorably as it compares to the Boxster, is still a hell of a lot more special feeling car than the Golf--even the R. The days when you *do* have to carry more than one person, you'd miss it.

I would (and am) willing to consider a 987.2 but a few things hold me back:

- I had one (987.1) and had it over a decade ago. To go back to one after all this time somehow feels weird.
- The discount over 981 is nowhere near what it should be, IMO.
- The 981 looks better is much more modern and that ups the likelihood that I'll keep it for a long time.

But to the extent that I am looking for fun first and speed 2nd, maybe I should be more willing to get a late 987.2S.

Are today's used prices consistent with what they were in January? Right now is a really weird time in the used car market. If we consider January "normal," wholesale used prices are up about 20% overall from normal. I haven't been paying attention to Porsche pricing through this, so I don't know how they fall in comparison to the general market.

By next spring/summer, used car values may have returned to normal as well. Maybe if you can prep yourself today to spend $50k, when the time actually comes, a $44k price is going to be a lot easier to mentally swallow?

Interesting points. The used market does seem pretty screwy right now. And production on new cars is ramping back up, so the shortages may abate and prices of everything may normalize or soften.

There is tremendous activity in the motorcycle market. I had no trouble selling two bikes. But then again it wasn't too hard (or expensive) to buy two bikes to replace them. Not sure about the car world as I find it harder and harder to enjoy cars where and how I live.

My rambling wasn't trying to suggest you buy another 987 (though they are insanely good value I think) but rather that it seems odd to have the M3 *and* a 981S. I get that the M3 has seating for four. But you have the Land Rover if you need to play the family truckster role, yeah?

My issue with the M3 is it doesn't know what it wants to be. It's no longer an analog machine that exists for the joy of driving. It's turned into an executive express, devoid of feel, kind of like a big twin turbo V8 Merc. I feel like if that's what you're into, Mercedes just does it a lot better.

Yes, I still have my Boxster. It's creeping up on 80,000 miles, I just spent like ten hours doing a thorough detail and ceramic coating on it and kind of keep falling in love with it every time I drive it. I agree with all of equ's points on the 981. It's objectively a better car but it's just somehow less enjoyable to me. Maybe one of the high output versions would change my mind? For $100k or whatever they cost, I'll never know.

I think at this point in my life I'm more interested in building the cars I want to drive rather than buying new expensive stuff that I'll look at every day as delaying my retirement :). If I were in FC's shoes I'd sell the M3 and replace it with a GTI - more fun and less stressful to own, and pick up a well-cared-for 987.2S to replace the Miata. :)

I’m sad and happy to be one of the few folks here in a single car situation. I need one car to do everything and not always need repair. While I’d love to own more then one I don't have the space nor do I want to afford it. I’ll live that fantasy through you all.

Be that as it may I agree with JV. The GTI is a great car. My friend has a manual mark 7.5. I like it a lot.

I don't think I'd want to go from M3+Miata to GTI+Boxster. I know my wife would not allow it. Things don't always make sense. But I do like the M3, I have an attachment to it and so does the whole family. I rather stay with what I've got until I don't feel guilty about adding the Boxster.

what does that mean :confused:

:lol: I'm not familiar with the whole wife + having to ask permission thing.

Totally makes sense. I think you’ve answered your own question then. Our work is done here. Lol

LOL

For the record, I only asked for help find a car. :D

But of course, being myself, always happy to deliberate and entertain options and alternatives.

She would be pissed that after all that convincing to get the M3 I end up selling it after a couple of years.

But that doesn't matter since I would not want to do it either.

Have you driven a 718? I know everyone pines over the loss of the NA-6, but I am curious if it is really as bad as the P-Car 'mudgeons make it out to be. I know I've mentioned it a number of times before and am in the vast minority, but I didn't like how much you had to wring out the MA1 to get the car to feel quick. After having the m3 for a while, you may find the lack of torque less appealing then when you had the 987.

Granted, the biggest reason I got the 991.2 was because I didn't want a turbo 4... but don't let my snobbery get in the way of a smart decision.

No, I have not drive a 718. That said, even if I liked it (doubtful since what I miss the most of the 987 was the sound - especially near redline), those are new enough to be too expensive.

Also, the bitching about the loss of the NA H6 is not a 'mudgeons thing. It's pretty universal. Nobody is faulty the actual performance - it's how it feels and sounds.

I go back and forth ... sometimes I think the four sounds really cool and sometimes I think it sounds like a four cylinder though a beefy one ...

I also go through this with the sound of the 911 ... sometimes I am loving it and other times I feel it is annoying.

The big picture is most of the time these cars sound good and they feel good.

I am not biased because I have the Cayman ... I never wanted one until I got one as a loaner and was surprised by how good it felt and truthfully for the price it was a bargain compared to the price of a 911 ... mine is a 2019 and had 1,200 miles on it ...

I do not think I will keep it long term (though who knows :dunno:) but it is a really enjoyable car and i’m having fun with it.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

(I know, I know. It's technically "Espresso." Homer works better with cocoa.)

Gt Silver over espresso with a brown top... We could be bros

You may know, but espresso is "natural leather" which is much softer and niceer than their regular seats. It also has leather on the door panels, which means they won't warp and deform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbRDV87JfvE
If the boxster espresso natural package is anything like the 911, it has leather EVERYWHERE...
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...explained.html

Have you added the vinanalytics chrome extrension, so you can just click it from any sale ad and see the options list?
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/d...dgnbbcoglahode

Seems like the right car at a ... well I don’t know anything about prices, but it seems reasonable.

I know. It’s somehow CPO it seems (?). My wife even said go check it out.:eeps:

I love that color combo. Looks like a great car.

looks like it has a built in laser jammer and escort 360 radar detector.

Hmmmm. Not sure that bodes well?