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-   -   E46 repairs / longevity / I love my car (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=159520)

Terri Kennedy 07-30-2020 10:36 PM

E46 repairs / longevity / I love my car
 
Inspired by the "Gunna be a good driving day today !!" thread...

I'd been having unexplained coolant loss (none when parked, but filling before starting would give me an intermittent "add coolant" warning light when running). Plus, it was coming up on an Inspection II (AKA "give us all your money) at 17.5 years / 135K miles. I took it to my local BMW-centric independent shop with the expectation that the leak repair was going to be "replace everything between the fan and the engine block" and it was. Aside from that and the Inspection II there were a bunch of other mostly-minor things, but the out-the-door price was $5300 ($3000+ in parts alone, either BMW or aftermarket depending on where the better quality is found). This on a car that generates automated trade-in offers of between $700 and $3000. Of course, that doesn't take into consideration that it was the highest-spec 325xiT ever sold by BMWNA (confirmed by them - actually spontaneously commented on when I was at a BMW event at Lime Rock years ago and Tom Purves happened to notice my car). And that's before all of the Euro-only options I added, etc. For those who want to catch up, a lot of my mods are documented here.

https://www.glaver.org/bmw/6F5S0422-l.jpg

Anyway, the shop owner commented that my car still drove like a new car and commended me for keeping it. I told him I never intended to sell it.

The shop ends up with a bunch of cars that end up with them due to being much more expensive to repair than they're worth, so the shop pays some small amount and fixes them up to be loaners. The loaner I ended up with while my car was in the shop was a 2005 E90 330xi. What a piece of crap. Aside from the original buyer's terrible taste in color (very light blue exterior, yellow/brownish interior leather and plastic, pecan dash wood) it was far less ergonomic than my E46. Particular complaints include the downward-sloping driver's door armrest with all of the controls bunched up at the far end, 1st-generation iDrive, a generally floaty suspension, etc). The only improved thing I noticed in my 2 weeks with it was the exterior door handle puddle lights, and that is a bit of a gimmick, not a real feature. It had navigation but no disc, so I burned the 2015 (last disc for that generation) DVD and added the shop as the one saved destination as a favor for them.

I never really looked at newer BMWs other than at a 5-series at the New York Auto Show (with some other folks from the 'fest and here), which was the year they replaced the spare tire with a piece of styrofoam that held lots of expensive electronics and that the roof gutters drained into, causing a very expensive non-warranty repair until BMW got slapped with a class action suit. I also looked at importing a new Euro M5 Touring during the last year of production, but there were a bunch of obstacles not worth overcoming. [Yes. there's the 25-year rule. But I know the top lawyer in NJ for vehicle title / registration issues and he can get just about anything done by stipulation, but $$$$.]

When I bought the E46 I'd heard that BMW learned how excessively they'd de-contented the E36 and that most of it had been fixed on the E46. Looks like they forgot that lesson on the E90. Maybe it is like the saying about Star Trek movies, that every other one sucks. But BMW has drifted so far away from their enthusiast roots that I can't see myself ever looking at (let alone buying) a current model.

The only out-of-the-blue repairs (once BMW fixed the wiring harness error when I first bought the car) were 2 window regulators (one failed in the middle of the winter in a blizzard, the other in Death Valley on a dirt road) and a bumper crop of CV joints (which were replaced at no charge after the first 3 as goodwill). The latest CV joints have been good for 60K miles or so now.

lip277 07-31-2020 11:09 AM

:D

I am there with you.. and why I have put way too much into my parents old E38. It is beyond rational... But, it is only money. lol

Seriously - There is nothing out there now (BMW or other) that remotely comes close to what I would want to have in my garage.

I do think after about 230,000 miles now though, the 2001 E38 I have is going to have to go somewhat soon. Don't know what I will replace it with though - but as I have the 997 and E23 to use (plus the E9 and Mustang and PSD - lol) - I have choices of what to drive while I make up my mind (if/when I part with the 740).

I was actually looking at this this morning...
2003 E39 on BaT

Sorry Ted that your M5 didn't work out for us. The timing wasn't quite right - but the main thing is/was that I really need to have an automatic (for Patty) for her use as a second car. Plus - I was driving the 997 the other day and my left knee was really starting to bug me for some reason... Made me thing about that whole 'getting old' thing isn't just about the cars.... LOL

3LOU5 07-31-2020 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Kennedy (Post 562192)
Inspired by the "Gunna be a good driving day today !!" thread...

I'd been having unexplained coolant loss (none when parked, but filling before starting would give me an intermittent "add coolant" warning light when running). Plus, it was coming up on an Inspection II (AKA "give us all your money) at 17.5 years / 135K miles. I took it to my local BMW-centric independent shop with the expectation that the leak repair was going to be "replace everything between the fan and the engine block" and it was. Aside from that and the Inspection II there were a bunch of other mostly-minor things, but the out-the-door price was $5300 ($3000+ in parts alone, either BMW or aftermarket depending on where the better quality is found). This on a car that generates automated trade-in offers of between $700 and $3000. Of course, that doesn't take into consideration that it was the highest-spec 325xiT ever sold by BMWNA (confirmed by them - actually spontaneously commented on when I was at a BMW event at Lime Rock years ago and Tom Purves happened to notice my car). And that's before all of the Euro-only options I added, etc. For those who want to catch up, a lot of my mods are documented here.

https://www.glaver.org/bmw/6F5S0422-l.jpg

Anyway, the shop owner commented that my car still drove like a new car and commended me for keeping it. I told him I never intended to sell it.

The shop ends up with a bunch of cars that end up with them due to being much more expensive to repair than they're worth, so the shop pays some small amount and fixes them up to be loaners. The loaner I ended up with while my car was in the shop was a 2005 E90 330xi. What a piece of crap. Aside from the original buyer's terrible taste in color (very light blue exterior, yellow/brownish interior leather and plastic, pecan dash wood) it was far less ergonomic than my E46. Particular complaints include the downward-sloping driver's door armrest with all of the controls bunched up at the far end, 1st-generation iDrive, a generally floaty suspension, etc). The only improved thing I noticed in my 2 weeks with it was the exterior door handle puddle lights, and that is a bit of a gimmick, not a real feature. It had navigation but no disc, so I burned the 2015 (last disc for that generation) DVD and added the shop as the one saved destination as a favor for them.

I never really looked at newer BMWs other than at a 5-series at the New York Auto Show (with some other folks from the 'fest and here), which was the year they replaced the spare tire with a piece of styrofoam that held lots of expensive electronics and that the roof gutters drained into, causing a very expensive non-warranty repair until BMW got slapped with a class action suit. I also looked at importing a new Euro M5 Touring during the last year of production, but there were a bunch of obstacles not worth overcoming. [Yes. there's the 25-year rule. But I know the top lawyer in NJ for vehicle title / registration issues and he can get just about anything done by stipulation, but $$$$.]

When I bought the E46 I'd heard that BMW learned how excessively they'd de-contented the E36 and that most of it had been fixed on the E46. Looks like they forgot that lesson on the E90. Maybe it is like the saying about Star Trek movies, that every other one sucks. But BMW has drifted so far away from their enthusiast roots that I can't see myself ever looking at (let alone buying) a current model.

The only out-of-the-blue repairs (once BMW fixed the wiring harness error when I first bought the car) were 2 window regulators (one failed in the middle of the winter in a blizzard, the other in Death Valley on a dirt road) and a bumper crop of CV joints (which were replaced at no charge after the first 3 as goodwill). The latest CV joints have been good for 60K miles or so now.

Wow, your car is still in showroom shape !!

I think the E46 has THAT timeless look about it, and is part of the reason why I could never get tired of looking at it.

Many times as I walk away from my car after I parked it in the garage at work, I find myself giving it one last look to make sure it's okay and marvel at what an awesome and fun car it is to drive.

Though underpowered, it still does everything well: looks good, capable mountain carver, decent gas mileage, all wrapped up in a package that is full of safety features.

wdc330i 07-31-2020 02:17 PM

Gorgeous wagon! Ours was Topaz. My Estoril 2 series reminds me of that color.

Terri Kennedy 08-01-2020 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 562210)
Gorgeous wagon! Ours was Topaz. My Estoril 2 series reminds me of that color.

Thanks! MY2003 was the last year they offered Steel Grey Metallic, and only up until 2/2003. So you only had from 9/2002 to 2/2003 to get an E46 refresh (DVD NAV, bi-xenon headlights, etc.) in that color. The color was introduced in 9/2000 for MY2001.

Terri Kennedy 08-01-2020 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3LOU5 (Post 562209)
I think the E46 has THAT timeless look about it, and is part of the reason why I could never get tired of looking at it.

The later BMW wagons started getting the roof angled down toward the rear. Aside from looking funny, it really reduces the loading capability.

If I wanted a SUV or a hatchback, I would have bought one. :dunno:

BMW always said that wagons sold poorly in the US. Aside from only offering the 2.5L E46, they never really marketed them. Almost every time I went to a dealer for service, potential customers were always going "Wow! They make this in a wagon?". After I bought mine, the dealership I ordered it from ended up with a couple dozen wagon sales, without any real support from BMWNA, just based on people seeing mine.

Another time I was on NJ 23 at a traffic light, when someone on a test drive from Paul Miller BMW was next to me in an X5. I cycled my side view mirrors (a Euro-only option) and he rolled down his window and said "Did your car just wave at me?" I told him yes, and it had more cargo space than the X5 he was test driving. Hopefully he brought the X5 back and ordered a wagon instead.

wdc330i 08-01-2020 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Kennedy (Post 562227)
Thanks! MY2003 was the last year they offered Steel Grey Metallic, and only up until 2/2003. So you only had from 9/2002 to 2/2003 to get an E46 refresh (DVD NAV, bi-xenon headlights, etc.) in that color. The color was introduced in 9/2000 for MY2001.

I remember Steel Gray. I think TD had an E46 sedan in that color.

We loved the Topaz—also because it was replacing our Topaz Z3 (after buying a house and getting a dog—we needed some room to haul.) My wife wanted to buy an SUV at the time, but I said, “Let’s just go test drive the wagon.” After driving Ford Explorers, a 4Runner, a Highlander, Volvo X90, and the like, she was sold.

We had two more BMW wagons after that—until they stopped selling them...

SARAFIL 08-01-2020 10:43 AM

E46 repairs / longevity / I love my car
 
I wish BMW had offered more variety in the wagons (E46 330, E91 335, F31 340, etc.) but I can understand why they didn’t. I get the “if they had imported it they would have sold more!!” argument but I really doubt there would have been enough additional sales to justify it. Case in point - look at various recent cars where enthusiasts insist on a manual being a “must” but then take rate is low single digits. Many of the enthusiasts online are potential 2nd, 3rd, 4th owners of these cars and that only works if they can find a 1st owner to buy it. :)

At its peak (pre-crossover/SUV boom) I think BMW sold 75-80k 3-series family in the US, all body styles (going off memory here, might be off a little). Sedans easily 60% of that based on my estimate, ballpark guess of 20%-ish coupes, let’s call it 15% convertible and 5% wagon (that’s probably generous). 3/4-series market has been on decline for past decade as buyers migrate to X3. It’s just hard to make a business case for another wagon variant for what would have resulted in maybe an extra 1000 units per year. The “1000 units a year” business case makes more sense on an exclusive and high $$$$ model like an Alpina 7 or M760.

wdc330i 08-01-2020 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562233)
I wish BMW had offered more variety in the wagons (E46 330, E91 335, F31 340, etc.) but I can understand why they didn’t. I get the “if they had imported it they would have sold more!!” argument but I really doubt there would have been enough additional sales to justify it. Case in point - look at various recent cars where enthusiasts insist on a manual being a “must” but then take rate is low single digits. Many of the enthusiasts online are potential 2nd, 3rd, 4th owners of these cars and that only works if they can find a 1st owner to buy it. :)

At its peak (pre-crossover/SUV boom) I think BMW sold 75-80k 3-series family in the US, all body styles (going off memory here, might be off a little). Sedans easily 60% of that based on my estimate, ballpark guess of 20%-ish coupes, let’s call it 15% convertible and 5% wagon (that’s probably generous). 3/4-series market has been on decline for past decade as buyers migrate to X3. It’s just hard to make a business case for another wagon variant for what would have resulted in maybe an extra 1000 units per year. The “1000 units a year” business case makes more sense on an exclusive and high $$$$ model like an Alpina 7 or M760.

Right! By that logic they should import the M3 Touring to the states. I would not complain about that!

SARAFIL 08-01-2020 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 562234)
Right! By that logic they should import the M3 Touring to the states. I would not complain about that!


I do agree that’s been a missed opportunity. MB and Audi have cashed in on that one and BMW could have made some $$ with a nice exclusivity premium.

wdc330i 08-01-2020 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562237)
I do agree that’s been a missed opportunity. MB and Audi have cashed in on that one and BMW could have made some $$ with a nice exclusivity premium.

Meanwhile, I just filled out some online survey for BMW about in-vehicle smartphone apps. How about work on a decent, practical, fun car? I'd even buy a 3 series GT at this point, if I could buy a new one with the B58 engine.

I'm less enthusiastic about buying a used version, when I already have a car about to lose its warranty and is already off maintenance.

SARAFIL 08-01-2020 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 562238)
Meanwhile, I just filled out some online survey for BMW about in-vehicle smartphone apps. How about work on a decent, practical, fun car? I'd even buy a 3 series GT at this point, if I could buy a new one with the B58 engine.

I'm less enthusiastic about buying a used version, when I already have a car about to lose its warranty and is already off maintenance.


Unfortunately I think in a few years BMW lineup will be sedans, maybe a 2 and/or 4 coupe/GC, no convertibles, no roadsters, no more GTs or wagons, and then a full range of X models from X1 to X7 (possibly X8). The shift in demand towards SUVs is just so strong. We were already naturally heading this way but Covid-driven expense cuts will probably make it happen much faster.

On that note, Mercedes recently told US dealers they are cutting 7-ish models in near future. They haven’t announced which ones but all of the coupes/convertibles in C, E, S class are rumored to be on the list plus CLS and the GT sedan (whatever they call that thing?). SLC (former SLK) is already dead and SL could be at risk in the future but I think safe for now.

Nick M3 08-01-2020 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562237)
I do agree that’s been a missed opportunity. MB and Audi have cashed in on that one and BMW could have made some $$ with a nice exclusivity premium.

I’ve never understood why so many of the niche fill BMW models have been the crappiest variants.

wdc330i 08-01-2020 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562245)
Unfortunately I think in a few years BMW lineup will be sedans, maybe a 2 and/or 4 coupe/GC, no convertibles, no roadsters, no more GTs or wagons, and then a full range of X models from X1 to X7 (possibly X8). The shift in demand towards SUVs is just so strong. We were already naturally heading this way but Covid-driven expense cuts will probably make it happen much faster.

On that note, Mercedes recently told US dealers they are cutting 7-ish models in near future. They haven’t announced which ones but all of the coupes/convertibles in C, E, S class are rumored to be on the list plus CLS and the GT sedan (whatever they call that thing?). SLC (former SLK) is already dead and SL could be at risk in the future but I think safe for now.

Woof. Maybe I should give up on the practical car and order the last of the RWD 2 series convertibles...

SARAFIL 08-01-2020 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 562247)
I’ve never understood why so many of the niche fill BMW models have been the crappiest variants.


Yea agree. Too many niches that no one was asking for with the GTs, GCs, 8 series. I wish they had done an M3 or M5 wagon instead of forcing a 3GT or 5/6GT on us. Also for what it’s worth, the new 8 series is flopping big time. BMW won’t be building any 2021 model M8 coupe/verts for US, just GC. Apparently the “take a 5 series coupe, relabel it from 6 series to 8 series and charge $$$ extra” strategy wasn’t working for them. It’s not a bad looking car but just at least $20k overpriced in regular trim and even more so once you get to the M8 models.

Terri Kennedy 08-02-2020 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562233)
I wish BMW had offered more variety in the wagons (E46 330, E91 335, F31 340, etc.) but I can understand why they didn’t. I get the “if they had imported it they would have sold more!!” argument but I really doubt there would have been enough additional sales to justify it.

Part of the blame can be placed at the FMVSS (the rest belongs to the manufacturers who don't press the issue). If a certain model powertarin (engine / transmission / cats / exhaust) is certified to US standards in one body style (330xi sedan) it should be possible to paper-certify that powertrain in a different body style (wagon) without going through the full round of expensive certification. Similarly, if a vehicle meets a more stringent acceptable foreign spec, it should be considered "type accepted" in the US.

Just look at the fugliness where the US was forced to use obsolete round sealed beam headlights and the manufacturers were falling all over themselves going "thank you! thank you!" when they were finally allowed to use rectangular sealed beam headlights while the foreign market had been using capsule lamps for multiple model generations. Or the giant protruding bumpers forced on imports (often with obscene suspension lifts to get them at the right height).

Then there was the "5MPH bumper" debacle - my '95 Talon came with a note that said that the bumpers were rated for collisions up to 5MPH, but that would result in "serious structural damage to both the bumper assembly and the vehicle chassis."

One of the few things I agreed with Stuka about was his "abolish NHTSA and FMVSS" goal. They could easily be replaced by adopting a common european standard.

Quote:

Case in point - look at various recent cars where enthusiasts insist on a manual being a “must” but then take rate is low single digits. Many of the enthusiasts online are potential 2nd, 3rd, 4th owners of these cars and that only works if they can find a 1st owner to buy it. :)
I think that speaks more to the lack of enthusiast interest in current BMW models, where people prefer to purchase older, better models.

Quote:

At its peak (pre-crossover/SUV boom) I think BMW sold 75-80k 3-series family in the US, all body styles (going off memory here, might be off a little). Sedans easily 60% of that based on my estimate, ballpark guess of 20%-ish coupes, let’s call it 15% convertible and 5% wagon (that’s probably generous). 3/4-series market has been on decline for past decade as buyers migrate to X3. It’s just hard to make a business case for another wagon variant for what would have resulted in maybe an extra 1000 units per year. The “1000 units a year” business case makes more sense on an exclusive and high $$$$ model like an Alpina 7 or M760.
Over at the 'fest there was someone (I forget who) who posted quarterly sales breakdowns by exact model.

And BMW seems to have no qualms about extremely limited editions to flush out any remaining "on the fence" buyers when a model is about to go out of production. Wasn't the E46 ZHP the last "mass market" performance edition?

wdc330i 08-02-2020 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562253)
Yea agree. Too many niches that no one was asking for with the GTs, GCs, 8 series. I wish they had done an M3 or M5 wagon instead of forcing a 3GT or 5/6GT on us. Also for what it’s worth, the new 8 series is flopping big time. BMW won’t be building any 2021 model M8 coupe/verts for US, just GC. Apparently the “take a 5 series coupe, relabel it from 6 series to 8 series and charge $$$ extra” strategy wasn’t working for them. It’s not a bad looking car but just at least $20k overpriced in regular trim and even more so once you get to the M8 models.

The M8 convertible is pretty gorgeous, IMO. In person.

SARAFIL 08-02-2020 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 562266)
The M8 convertible is pretty gorgeous, IMO. In person.


It is a really nice looking car, just not a $150k car. It’s basically an extension of the 5 series family and should have been priced as such (and kept the 6 series label).

wdc330i 08-02-2020 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562272)
It is a really nice looking car, just not a $150k car. It’s basically an extension of the 5 series family and should have been priced as such (and kept the 6 series label).

Indeed. It's what the 6 series convertible should have looked like all along.

Alan 08-02-2020 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 562266)
The M8 convertible is pretty gorgeous, IMO. In person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562272)
It is a really nice looking car, just not a $150k car. It’s basically an extension of the 5 series family and should have been priced as such (and kept the 6 series label).

The 8 series really are beautiful cars, it looks Aston’ish ... my son has been pushing me to replace the 5er which is up at the end of this year with the 4 door model but I agree with Sarafil, the price point is too high and I just don’t see a reason to spend that kind of $$ on an everyday car especially when I am happy with the model I have.

wdc330i 08-02-2020 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 562274)
The 8 series really are beautiful cars, it looks Aston’ish ... my son has been pushing me to replace the 5er which is up at the end of this year with the 4 door model but I agree with Sarafil, the price point is too high and I just don’t see a reason to spend that kind of $$ on an everyday car especially when I am happy with the model I have.

I'm sure you could find some steeply discounted ones. They are sitting on dealers' lots.

Alan 08-02-2020 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 562275)
I'm sure you could find some steeply discounted ones. They are sitting on dealers' lots.

My salesman told me the other day their inventory in general is really low ... he is a bit of an old timer, he was almost speechless ... in all his years he was telling me he never saw anything like this ..

Btw it’s not that I would consider the 8er anyway ... too expensive for a daily.

wdc330i 08-02-2020 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan (Post 562278)
My salesman told me the other day their inventory in general is really low ... he is a bit of an old timer, he was almost speechless ... in all his years he was telling me he never saw anything like this ..

Btw it’s not that I would consider the 8er anyway ... too expensive for a daily.

Overall, new inventory is indeed VERY low.

Terri Kennedy 08-04-2020 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARAFIL (Post 562272)
It is a really nice looking car, just not a $150k car. It’s basically an extension of the 5 series family and should have been priced as such (and kept the 6 series label).

It is the same "price creep" that happened with the Atom. When Brammo started making them, the base stripper model was around $30K and mine ended up being $65K. By the time TMI had taken over operations from Brammo. the closest configuration you could get to mine (a bunch of the options on my car were no longer available) was $119K.

As I told them, for $30K it was a "no thought required" decision. At $65K it was a "well, maybe". At $119K there are a lot of other fun cars to be had (and you might be able to buy several), so why would anyone buy an Atom? And to make it worse, after things like this from Atom owners:


(Skip to 00:50)

Made because people kept calling Atoms dune buggys, Ariel went ahead and created the Nomad - an official dune buggy version of the Atom.

BMW certainly doesn't have a monopoly on overpriced bad ideas...


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