carmudgeons.com - Taycan reveal

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- - Taycan reveal (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=158709)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 551666)

It looks like a nice performance EV. Its specs, however, are disappointing. Assuming we're not going to see a range figure that really blows everything else out of the water, it's a smallish, 4 seat EV that used 93 kwh to travel less far than the (barely slower, smaller-but-with-more-usable space) Model 3 can go on 70ish kwh.

That doesn't mean it's a bad car, or even a bad EV. Performance cars aren't necessarily as efficient as non-performance cars. But it does suggest that the Porsche doesn't have any particular secret sauce compared to the rest of the VAG empire, and (perhaps most importantly) that Tesla still has a pretty significant lead in battery/driveline tech, fancy two-speed gearbox and 800V architecture notwithstanding.

Does it look worlds better than the Tesla? Certainly better than the Model 3, yes. Better than the Model S? I mean, that car is 7 years old now, so it suffers from being overly familiar. But I think the Model S is better looking. The dropping tear ducts on this car skeeve me out, and the ones with the smaller wheels look a little low rent.

EDIT: And, yeah, the price is stupid. Porsche has never been a value play, but their cars are actually pretty well priced against competitive offerings. This...isn't.

The tear ducts suck. Hopefully they don't become a thing on future porsches. Guessing they serve a similar function as BMW's "air curtains" to help w/ aero

Overall, I like the size/proportions/look though. It is hard to compare to the Model S due to familiarity but, to my eyes, the S has no bad angles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBB (Post 551663)

Here's the first of Motoman's videos on the Taycan. He has another being posted on Sunday (I think that's what he told me)...

As for price, $151k base puts this way out of reach... I was expecting under $100k starting price...

Yeah that base price is crazy high ... there are way too many cars under that price that are awesome to own. I get this one is electric and that is cool but not for that price but then again it’s Porsche ... they will sell everyone one of them ... at least for now.

So, as I read it, the "Turbo" and "Turbo S" are the debut models, but there will be lower spec models coming out as well. Based on typical Porsche pricing spreads, that reads to me like the base models will be around $100k, right?

I've heard that the driving experience absolutely kicks the shit out of anything that Tesla offers, notwithstanding any spec discrepancies as well.

I'm going to bet that Tesla ends up occupying the "Corvette" niche of the EV market. Big, big specs. Really good on paper. Honestly very good in the real world. But also not nearly as good as it could be, and compromised in all kinds of ways that people care about.

I have no doubt that Porsche can build a dynamically superior car. My question is where VAG is on battery and driveline tech; based on the specs we’ve seen so far of the Audi and now Taycan, it sounds like the answer is “many years behind Tesla.”

Which, tbh, is not a surprise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 551684)

Good analogy. Tesla has a whiff of GM about them with their intense focus on meeting quarterly numbers and indifferent build quality. The difference, for now, is that their battery/drivetrain tech is way ahead of everyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 551685)

I don't actually think that we know that at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 551685)

This almost certainly not inside info but a German friend who is an engineering PhD told me a few months ago that Germans were still struggling to find the secret to Tesla's battery power density.

I think we do. VAG is using a 93 kWh battery and isn’t getting near the range that Tesla is getting from smaller units, let alone the range that Tesla is getting from 100 kWh units. The Taycan’s final range hasn’t been announced, but all of the numbers we’ve seen so far are pretty meh.

Early this year I talked to a former Tesla battery engineer who echoed what FC said—they’ve spent a lot of time and effort to crack some pretty serious technical challenges, and they don’t see the Germans as being anywhere close on answering those questions. That’s self-serving, sure, but it’s consistent with everything we’ve seen publicly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 551689)

How much do good tires impact the range of a Tesla? Aren't the stock tires all tiny, ultra low resistance casters, even on the big wheels?