I didn't know that car was coming out, thanks for the link it looks pretty cool.

My son and I just took about a 12-15 minute test drive by ourselves in this car, I know it’s not a Tesla but it is fully electric so I posted it here.

It is pretty cool car, good acceleration, still pushes your head back due to the instant electric acceleration and overall a really cool car.

It has a regular dashboard and also an iPad like screen in the middle. It is not as fast as the model 3 but the power is good. It doesn’t have the cool feature of seeing the cars around you like the Tesla and I actually like the idea of no dashboard in front of the driver in the model 3 Compared to having the dashboard like this car has.

Strange thing is you buy it from a Polestar dealer (not really a dealer but a rep from what I understand) but all service is done by Volvo who btw does not sell the vehicle

One other note, it felt like a drivers car, nice steering which is adjustable in heaviness and it handled the curves really well.

This electric thing is really growing on me !!

One other note, it is a hatchback and looks much better in person then the pictures, I thought it would be X6 looking but it is much more car like in person

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...717ec76a84.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4529b27414.jpg


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Polestar:kekeke:

infotainment is the first car running the google version

Because Polestar is Volvo. Even if it’s not it is. China-ownership notwithstanding.

Leaving the Chinese part aside, the Polestar 2 is a much more interesting proposition to me than the Tesla. Don’t see myself buying one, but maybe the next version?

Yep. Interesting to note that you can’t actually buy them through a volvo dealer (if I understood correctly from Alan’s post). Maybe it’s a clever way to circumvent dealer franchise laws and sell direct?


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Yes you can only buy them from an authorized Polestar dealer and it looks like there are only 4 in the US.

Interesting. Based on this article, it looks like the "Polestar spaces" are still franchises; not company owned like Tesla. So i guess my theory was wrong.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ied-sub-brand/

It's a neat looking car, but the whole Polestar thing is kind of weird, especially since there's just SO MUCH Volvo in the design language.

I saw one of these driving down I-95 today, except it clearly said "Volvo" and "T5" on the trunk. I has confuse.

A) this has standard Volvo styling cues, so if you look really quick it kinda looks like a regular Volvo

B) Volvo offers a “polestar” package & dealer accessories for their regular models which is basically a performance kit, kind of like BMW M Performance - which makes it confusing when they use the same name for what is supposed to be a totally different brand. https://www.volvocars.com/us/cars/ne...&redirect=true

Just saw one of these in the flesh yesterday, nice looking wagon

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/11/16/...-t6-road-test/

It is a cool looking car and looks considerably better in person ...

You sure it wasn’t the regular S60 sedan?


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That was the joke.

Inspecting a freshly delivered 3.

Probably worth watching for an idea of how to look at a new car. Then again, you might not want to.

I like the detailing videos these guys do.

This guy (Sandy Munro) owns a company that does tear down analysis for a lot of manufacturers. He's done a bunch of videos on Teslas and has actually become a huge fan (his initial analysis of the model 3 several years ago was "built like a kia from the 90s"). He interviewed Musk a couple weeks ago was well.

Here's his latest series on the current Model 3. Seems they've made some good improvements over the past 2 years but he is still mystified as to why they continue to struggle with exterior fit/finish. Interior is near perfect. Really interesting stuff if you watch the whole series. Love the little zingers he throws in occasionally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPBGVI2oFLI

The other day I saw a Tesla sitting on side of the expressway by an off ramp and it made me think what happens if a Tesla runs out of battery similar to a car running out of gas ? Are you stuck getting it towed or is there some type of portable back battery you could carry ?

The short answer is no, there’s no backup you carry—the Tesla already has a very energy dense battery, so anything with enough juice to move you any distance would just be...a big huge battery.

The longer answer is that while this might seem like a concern, I’ve never gotten close to actually having to worry about it. Especially if you’re home charging (yes, Clyde, I know not everyone can do that), the car has a full battery every morning, and it provides you with tons of tools to understand your energy usage.

That, coupled with the Supercharger network that’s basically all over the place now (at least on the coasts) means that the chance you’ll be stuck on the side of the road with a dead battery is pretty low. It’s thousands of percent more likely that what will stick you on the side of the road, in fact, is 19th century pneumatic technology, since like most cars these days they don’t come with spares.

Mostly what JST said... AAA in some areas has trucks equipped with chargers that can be used to give a car 5-10 miles of charge in ~20 min.

But have you ever run out of gas? What do you do when the yellow light comes on indicating low fuel?

EVs are basically the same. They let you know when the battery is low (the battery icon goes yellow below 20% and red below 10% on a Tesla), and predict remaining range. Tesla goes further by telling you if you don’t have enough to get to your destination and back home again. On longer trips, it routes you to the Superchargers and includes charging time in your ETA.

I’ve never run out in nearly 8 years. The lowest I’ve taken a Tesla was down to about 2 miles remaining — but I did it on purpose and was close to home below the 10 mile mark. The lowest I pulled into a Supercharger was my first ever Supercharger stop in 2014 - arrived with 13 miles remaining, and that was within a mile of expected (this was before Tesla added advanced route planning into the car, so I had done some planning on a website). That route now has multiple Superchargers along the route that help avoid running so low.

Edit - also remember that you mostly charge at home. You basically never leave home without enough to get where you are going and back home again. I currently charge up about one a week, but when I was still commuting, I charged most nights...

Actually yes only once in my life and I am embarrassed to say I was in my upper 40's when it happened ... you would think this would happen when you're a kid first starting to drive.

Both of these scenario's would give me major anxiety ... I remember being on a road trip where we were down to the last bar of gas and I was so stressed until we finally found a gas station plus what if the car/gauge is wrong.

Ha I’m the same way. I’m kind of ocd about filling up when the tank is half full whereas my wife lets it go down to almost zero.


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Both of these were in the first year I owned the Model S -- the first was about 7 months in and the second was 9 months in. The first was really an attempt to fight my anxiety of driving after the yellow light comes on...

For the second, which was our first Tesla Road Trip, I did a lot of planning for that drive that is no longer necessary. We went from Scottsdale to the Grand Canyon for a long weekend (including a couple nights at the El Tovar hotel...). At the time, the Supercharger in Flagstaff was the closest one to us and the only one we'd use on the trip. From our house to the Supercharger was 129 miles, but it was uphill (going from ~2000 feet to ~7000 feet). We were also driving in Feb, so temps were cool (although not super cold that weekend). I had the small battery in the Model S, so it only had ~200 miles rated range -- and the combination of highway speeds and elevation climb meant that we were using close to the full range of the car. But we planned for it -- and this are things that you no longer need to worry about since there are just so many more Superchargers. My planning included identifying 3 locations along the drive to do mileage checks -- if I was below a rated miles threshold, we would need to divert and charge for a bit at either a public charger or RV park. But we didn't need to stop. As I mentioned, this was before the car did all the charge planning onboard -- now you can just put the destination in and it will route you through Superchargers to get where you need to go.

The other thing about driving an EV is that speed has a big impact on range (all cars have the similar impact from wind resistance, but its much more noticeable in and EV). Teslas will suggest slowing down below a certain speed in order to help reach a destination (if it calculates you do not have enough remaining range at the speed you are going). On that first trip, I actually drove the posted speed limit for about 75% of the trip. Only when we crested the last major climb did I speed up a little bit (at that point, I knew we would make it -- ~30ish miles remaining with over 40 miles of rated remaining...

https://www.scca.com/announcements/2...visional-class

So, there's that, now, too.

Wait, I haven't been following; wasn't it classed in BS, won the class, then they moved it? Or do I have the timeline wrong?

The 3 Performance was in BS in 2019. Moved along with nearly all other electric cars to SS for 2020 (and now 2021).

The Model 3 (all 3s) is also eligible for ASP Limited Prep ("Limited Prep" provies a subset of *SP allowances in what I think is an attempt to increase participation and competition without upsetting the apple carts too much, but JV could explain it much better).

My post above is about a new class where the 3 and the other electrics will be able to play with some simple mods beginning later this month.

Before anyone complains about lumping all electrics in single provisional class because [reasons], this is the same path that spawned the Street Touring * classes from a single provisional class to four(?) full fledged classes in about five years to five different classes today with at least another three ST* classes that rose and failed in between.

I don't get a chance to drive the Model 3 that much anymore, and the chances to drive it on twisty roads are even rarer.

But yesterday I took it to drop the kid off at camp in central VA and had a chance to enjoy some rural country roads in it, solo. These aren't exactly California-spec curvy roads; I didn't even get into the mountains by the Shenandoah Valley. But they were fairly entertaining.

I have to say, all the bullshit about Tesla aside, this is a fun and satisfying car to drive. It's not like the Boxster, but it has its rewards--being able to hear everything, from the birds to the sizzle of the tires in the curves, is really cool. The heavy regen gives you an uncanny feeling of control which is fantastic on an unfamiliar road, where you don't want to be braking super late anyway. And the power...well.

I ended up behind a Buick that was proceeding at Buickpace and when I came to a passing zone I gave the Tesla full whack from about 30 mph and...holy fuck I kind of forgot how fast it is. Like, I almost drove into the ditch because it surprised me so much kind of fast. There is just nothing like the overtaking you can do with this car.

It really is something else, especially because it's so quiet and unassuming otherwise.

I would have thought you'd use the world "squeal" if that's what you meant. Since you did not, I must assume that hearing the "sizzle of the tires" is something different, but I do not understand what it means, "in the curves" or not.

[snip]
Not driving as much means less opportunity to enjoy anything about any particular car, but this gets to one my biggest gripes about cars with a performance bent (straight line, turning, transitioning, or any mix and match combo that interests you).

With performance envelopes so far beyond what the fun-sucking Camry and Buick drivers allow us to enjoy when we're stuck behind them (which is pretty much all the fucking time), what does it matter how explosive acceleration is? :dunno:

What does it matter how communicative the steering is at the limit when when you're going around a curve in a 35mph zone with a 30mph advisory speed that the Buick driver in front of you is taking literally when your tires won't sizzle under 70mph (I don't think I got "sizzle" right, but maybe?)?

I mean, nothing wrong with getting that moment to enjoy what you have, but when you can barely use it, meh.

This is something I've been grappling with a bit on the rare days I drive the Camaro. I can very rarely use it's full power to any real effect. I can't come anywhere close to enjoying it's behavior on the edge and everything below that, while feeling good, also feels boring. It's big saving grace are the V8 noises. If a bit childish, they are fantastic and quite usable at any speed in any conditions. Under load at full throttle, those noises are better, but even just a goose off idle while sitting still is a smile generator.

I look to the electric future and I just don't see myself enjoying the sound of sizzling tires quite the same way...assuming the electric traffic overlords will even allow me to make the tires sizzle.

Sizzle in this sense means hearing them on the road, not at the limit of adhesion. That's something you don't hear in a car with an engine, but it's pretty pronounced in a car without one. Is it viscerally as much fun as a big V8 sound? No, but it's an interesting aspect that lets you get closer to the feeling of just being part of the environment. It's like the difference between biking and motorcycling, except faster.

The fast car slow v. slow car fast argument is a long and storied one. I suspect a Miata would have been more fun on these roads. I know the Boxster would have been. I'm not sure what a lower-limit, well-balanced EV would be like in these kinds of circumstances, but I don't think the M3 would have been any better than the Tesla. Louder, certainly, but not more fun.

And honestly the acceleration in the Tesla *is* accessible, and usable, in a way that the similar power in the BMW isn't. That's one thing our electric future will give, at the same time it takes away things like loud noises and shifting. Maybe it's not a good trade, but it's not nothing.

So, it's something I should hear in the RAV4 Hybrid when the engine is off? :dunno: I only hear the regular road noise thrum from tires on pavement plus windnoise.

I don't mean to belabor it, but I don't recall seeing anyone reference tire noise like this before and I haven't driven a full time EV, so I really don't get it.

How usable is power that tries to put you in the ditch?

This is not an Anti-Tesla or anti-EV thing. And I don't mean to suggest that one form is better than the other. I do believe that EVs will be capable of giving much more than they do today in terms of tradeoffs (whether consumer patterns and government regulations will allow them all is another matter) and I fully expect to be happy as a clam in the EV I eventually buy to replace the Camaro as my daily driver (or equivalent since I don't even daily that).

The lamenting and negativity is directed more at the facts that cars are so good today and we have to share the roads with so many people that don't share our driving enjoyment that there is such little opportunity to enjoy exercising the cars we have in really fun ways regardless of their means of propulsion.

I'm glad you got to enjoy yours this weekend.

Have you taken the Rav 4 hybrid for a drive on a winding road with the engine off and the windows down?

Idk, it's not the tires squealing, but it's the tires making noise on the road. Not sure how else to explain it.

Is it something you hear only with power applied? Because if you ask the RAV4 for more than a small amount of thrust, the engine kicks back on.

If turns with a modest amount of lateral acceleration counts, but not necessarily thrust, then yes and I don't recall anything like you describe...which I'm still having a hard time imagining being anything but something tightly tied to the specific combination of speeds, pavement type, tire (including treadblock shape, size, depth, and compound), surroundings, and other environmental conditions.

We may not be able to get any further on this with just written words.

That's really all you can ask for in a daily driver type car...practical enough yet fun and engaging on normal roads. As I consider my next car, I have to admit that the Model 3 occupies an appealing space in terms of cost/practicality/fun/size. Taking it off the table, I'll either end up most likely getting something like an Audi S5 SB or spending a lot more and getting some form of Taycan.

I was also on a nice twisty road this weekend...even in our SUV it's fun but I got stuck behind several Subarus and Lexi doing 10 under the speed limit.

Admittedly drive by semi-drunk posting here but I have a hard time believing anyone here doesn't by definition completely understand the appeal of having outrageously ridiculous instantaneous kidney-punching acceleration on tap at all times. I mean, come on. :lol:

I understand the appeal for sure. But practically speaking, it is a party trick that gets old after a couple times behind the wheel. The other things that make enjoyable cars enjoyable like chassis balance, steering and brake feel and ride quality never get old. At least not to me.

I spend an unwisely large portion of my time thinking about and playing with automobiles. The center of that attention is autocross, not drag racing. :dunno:

No objection to having a stupifying amount of power under my right foot, but the value of that appeal dwindles rapidly when the opportunities to use it are so rare. Things that can be appreciated while sitting still at a traffic light and when stuck behind a train of cars led by a Prius trundling along 3 mph below the already way-to-low posted speed limit provide more relative value because they can be used and appreciated more often.

I mean, in that circumstance the instant torque of an EV is something you can appreciate way more frequently than a taut chassis.

The Tesla's power is a party trick but eventually you stop gunning it from light to light and just start to appreciate how effortless it makes all city driving, from dawdling along to passing to inserting yourself into small gaps.

In that sense it's way more useful than the power in the M3, which is a lot more trouble to access and mostly doesn't do anything for you around town.

I agree with this 100%

Then what purpose does the M3 serve? Do you still like it?

I do! It's a very different driving experience than the Tesla, and is rewarding in its own right. I keep it because I need to have two four-door cars, still. If I had to choose between the Model 3 and the M3, I'm honestly not sure which way I'd go. The Model 3 is (perhaps surprisingly) far more practical and a lot easier to drive; in addition to exceling around town, it's frankly a better trip car, too, because it has more space and is more comfortable on the highway. The M3 is kind of loud and tiresome after a few hours on the interstate.

But the M3 is fun in an analogue, muscle-car kind of way, and it's neat to hear the turbos spool, and a manual transmission is still more rewarding than the Tesla. Plus, there are still some very small corner cases where a gas car is easier to use than an EV (though given the size of the Tesla charging network, around here those cases are really rare).

I also don't see them making a better car than the M3 any time soon, with the possible exception of the G87, so maybe I just have to hold this one until the bearings spin.

I have tons of skepticism about that comparison even if I can't be certain until I live with one for a while.

A well-damped, taut chassis is something you can feel and appreciate with every motion of the car no matter what its non-zero speed or proximity to the edge of its envelope. The behavior and feel at its limits are something separate. It's what you feel when you're taking a casual stroll with the car, not what it's like to try dancing with it.

The first time I really understood this was on an off-ramp at an anonymous and totally unremarkable speed the first night I had the RX-8. The tiniest changes in throttle input had a most predictable and natural effect on the car's arc. This was not in a high-strung, nervous, or twitchy kind of way, but rather in a this-is-how-it's-supposed-to-work way. It was not something that any "normal" driver would have noticed, but very much present and someone attuned to vehicle dynamics couldn't miss.