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-   -   RX 8 .. . Problem already !! (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=137204)

Alan 07-05-2017 08:56 PM

RX 8 .. . Problem already !!
 
Quick story .. started the RX8 and let it run for a good 5 minutes after a month of not being driven and then drove it ... first block or two and no issue then while gently going from 1st to 2nd gear The car stumbles and the car can barely go 35 mph. It is struggling and a picture of the engine is flashing yellow on the dashboard ... get the car back to the driveway I picked it up from and have it towed to a local shop who worked on the car in the past.

The mechanic doesn't know rotary's but does a check and finds error code PO 443 and PO 300 and tells me it's a cylinder misfire probably due from Sitting around for a month ... he resets everything and the car runs fine I drive it home from his shop about a mile away I go for a quick extra drive and redline it thinking maybe it needs to be cleared out ...

Today which is about 5 days later I pick up the car and it starts and I take off ... same thing a couple of blocks no issues, then again a calm drive to 1st gear then 2nd and damn the same blinking engine light and limp mode again.

Any ideas I read it might be coils and spark plugs for the misfire ... argh who needs this sh*t :mad:

Btw it's a 2004 with almost 77k miles

Any diagnostic tool you can recommend end so I can reset it instead of getting ripped off

clyde 07-05-2017 09:06 PM

Coils, plugs, and/or spark plug wires are a good start for the p0300. Not difficult or expensive. The p0443 is emissions and could well be related to things not firing right.

If you're already at "who needs this shit," sell the car before you start modding it. :)

John V 07-05-2017 09:19 PM

Yep... coils and plugs are the likely fix.

Actually no... it's probably something really complicated. I'll give you $2,000 for it. Let me know when you want me to come pick it up :)

clyde 07-05-2017 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John V (Post 507668)
Yep... coils and plugs are the likely fix.

Actually no... it's probably something really complicated. I'll give you $2,000 for it. Let me know when you want me to come pick it up :)

:lol:

Co-drive dibs :eeps:

Alan 07-05-2017 10:42 PM

John ... I couldn't do that to you ... you don't like Mazda yellow .. heck neither do I :rolleyes2

Ok so I'm gonna call the dealer tomorrow to see what this will cost ... I did watch a couple of youtube video's on how to change the coils but I really don't want to DIY.

equ 07-06-2017 06:01 AM

My money is also on something worse than coils... (Although the symptoms match)

I was pretty close to getting an '06. It's distant past, but I remember 04 and even 05's having teething issues that I wanted to avoid. One of those was a no-start if you only run it a short period and shut it off, but that wasn't the sole offender.

$2000 sounds generous. :eek:

(Hope you paid less)

John V 07-06-2017 07:09 AM

It definitely could be something else, but honestly there isn't much that goes wrong with these that isn't an internal engine problem, and the symptoms don't line up with an internal engine problem. Usually when there's an internal issue the engine won't start.

AF, since it's an undesirable color, I'll give you $1500 for it. Deal? :D

Alan 07-06-2017 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 507677)
My money is also on something worse than coils... (Although the symptoms match)

I was pretty close to getting an '06. It's distant past, but I remember 04 and even 05's having teething issues that I wanted to avoid. One of those was a no-start if you only run it a short period and shut it off, but that wasn't the sole offender.

$2000 sounds generous. :eek:

(Hope you paid less)

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpo...1&postcount=11

I had a 2005 back in the day and am aware of that start issue, if I recall you just rev the car to around 4K rpm's and then shut down at that rpm to avoid a no start problem. I never ran into that issue though I did sell the car after a year with only 4K miles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John V (Post 507678)
It definitely could be something else, but honestly there isn't much that goes wrong with these that isn't an internal engine problem, and the symptoms don't line up with an internal engine problem. Usually when there's an internal issue the engine won't start.

AF, since it's an undesirable color, I'll give you $1500 for it. Deal? :D

Lol aren't offers supposed to go up not down

John V 07-06-2017 10:25 AM

If it's got a sunroof, $1k.

Alan 07-06-2017 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John V (Post 507688)
If it's got a sunroof, $1k.

That is funny ... I have no idea if it has one but I do know it has leather interior and you probably want cloth because it is more grippy ... at this point I think I'll be paying you to take it.

Josh (PA) 07-06-2017 03:03 PM

Alan, this does not sound like a good idea for a project car. Just my $0.00002, but sell it quick and get yourself an s2k, miata or similar to turn into a track / auto-x toy.

John V 07-06-2017 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 507699)
That is funny ... I have no idea if it has one but I do know it has leather interior and you probably want cloth because it is more grippy ... at this point I think I'll be paying you to take it.

I think that's probably the best approach, yes. :lol:

Alan 07-06-2017 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh (PA) (Post 507706)
Alan, this does not sound like a good idea for a project car. Just my $0.00002, but sell it quick and get yourself an s2k, miata or similar to turn into a track / auto-x toy.


I appreciate the suggestion but I'm wasn't really looking for another car ... I might just sell it and give the $$ back to the estate.

BTW I don't know if you remember but I had an S2000, see the link below, I wasn't a fan and sold it pretty much as soon as the title came in.

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showth...ighlight=s2000

clyde 07-06-2017 07:12 PM

I love this thread!

Alan 07-06-2017 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyde (Post 507728)
I love this thread!

I'm not having a bidding war between you and John who I can pay less $$ to to take this car :D

On a almost serious note I read up a lot on modding this car and this is not a car to mod ... seriously big bucks probably 4 times what it is worth to mod it ($20k and up) and thats only the engine and nothing to do with the rest of the car ... paint, interior, etc.

I spoke to the servicing dealer and my step father did quite a bit of maintenance to it which includes replacing the catalytic converter, spark plugs, coils and more.

Car is getting flat bedded to the dealer this weekend and we will see what the issue is.

clyde 07-06-2017 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 507741)
I'm not having a bidding war between you and John who I can pay less $$ to to take this car :D

On a almost serious note I read up a lot on modding this car and this is not a car to mod ... seriously big bucks probably 4 times what it is worth to mod it ($20k and up) and thats only the engine and nothing to do with the rest of the car ... paint, interior, etc.

I spoke to the servicing dealer and my step father did quite a bit of maintenance to it which includes replacing the catalytic converter, spark plugs, coils and more.

Car is getting flat bedded to the dealer this weekend and we will see what the issue is.

Reminds me... condolences for your loss.

I'm not in a bidding war for the car. You'd need to pay me five figures to take it, so, you know. :D

Coils can go out pretty quick. I blew one (or two?) out in my first autocross in mine when I had barely any time or miles on it (and most of that driving to Koni's shop and back).

Good luck. Will be following along.

kognito 07-07-2017 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyde (Post 507748)
Reminds me... condolences for your loss.

Yes, this. Sorry for your loss

JST 07-07-2017 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyde (Post 507748)
Reminds me... condolences for your loss.

I'm not in a bidding war for the car. You'd need to pay me five figures to take it, so, you know. :D

Coils can go out pretty quick. I blew one (or two?) out in my first autocross in mine when I had barely any time or miles on it (and most of that driving to Koni's shop and back).

Good luck. Will be following along.

What makes the coils so...delicate?

John V 07-07-2017 09:44 AM

Crappy coils and mazdas mounting scheme. There are aftermarket solutions that solve the problem.

Alan 07-07-2017 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyde (Post 507748)
Reminds me... condolences for your loss.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kognito (Post 507764)
Yes, this. Sorry for your loss

Thanks Guys ... it is a really sad loss ... he was always so good to me, I still can't believe he isn't here ... He also took such great care of my mom. My kids and wife as well as myself are heartbroken :(

He was also a major car guy with some crazy car stories ... he was into autocrossing when he was younger and we shared a love for cars which is why he left the RX8 to me ... we would talk and I told him if you ever get rid of this car let me know first !!

wdc330i 07-07-2017 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 507822)
Thanks Guys ... it is a really sad loss ... he was always so good to me, I still can't believe he isn't here ... He also took such great care of my mom. My kids and wife as well as myself are heartbroken :(

He was also a major car guy with some crazy car stories ... he was into autocrossing when he was younger and we shared a love for cars which is why he left the RX8 to me ... we would talk and I told him if you ever get rid of this car let me know first !!

So sorry, AF. It sounds like he was a great guy.

equ 07-08-2017 05:25 AM

My condolences.

Josh (PA) 07-08-2017 08:51 AM

Sorry to hear :( On the bright side it sounds like he left a pretty decent apple that didn't fall far from the tree :)

Alan 07-08-2017 05:00 PM

I truly appreciate all the kind comments ... thank you !!



Now on with thread :D today's update: car was flatbedded to the dealer ... gotta love AAA .... it cost me only $20 !!

The car started right up, no check engine light and the power was there but I didn't want to chance it which is why I flatbedded. I'm betting like the others it is the coils and spark plugs.

Also I can't believe I'm going to say his but the yellow is starting to grow on me.

Plaz 07-08-2017 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 507885)
Also I can't believe I'm going to say his but the yellow is starting to grow on me.

A short course of antibiotics should clear that right up. :D

kognito 07-08-2017 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plaz (Post 507887)
A short course of antibiotics should clear that right up. :D

:lol::lol:

AF, if the yellow really bugs you, car wraps are getting to be very reasonable and quick. (as long as you don't mind it still being yellow under the hood)

Josh (PA) 07-08-2017 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kognito (Post 507889)
:lol::lol:

AF, if the yellow really bugs you, car wraps are getting to be very reasonable and quick. (as long as you don't mind it still being yellow under the hood)

That's a good suggestion. Cheap, temporary, you can get creative without ruining the car long term and won't kill resale.

Alan 07-12-2017 10:08 AM

So the dealer checked the car out and said the compression is low in #2. They said they need to replace the coils, spark plugs and wires and they want to do a good carbon cleaning on number 2 (he called it a cylinder but we all know these cars don't have cylinders) and it should hopefully bring the compression back up.

The main issue is whether to spend the dollars and hope that fixes the compression issue ... I don't know how these things work but he did say to get compression you need a spark which the car is now not getting.

He also asked when the car ran well last which is pretty much a month and a half ago when the car was being used on a regular basis.

At this point I think I'll take my chances and spend the dollars to fix it :dunno:

John V 07-12-2017 10:31 AM

AF,

If the dealer did a correct compression test, he should be able to provide you the compression numbers per chamber, per rotor. Could you please ask them to provide this, and then share it with us? "Low" compression can mean a lot of things. The manual used to specify less than 600kPa (dealer might report this as 6.0) as low. A well-built new engine should be between 7.5 and 8.0 (or more!). Typically well-used rotaries may be 6.5-7.0 on the front rotor and 6.0-6.5 on the rear.

There are two main failure modes on the RENESIS as far as compression goes. One, the engine simply wears out - the apex seal springs get weak or the seals wear, or the housings wear. This will manifest as low compression across all chambers. "Cleaning" the chambers will do nothing.

Two, if the car has been sitting a long time without being driven, one or more seals (typically one) can become stuck. This is pretty rare, and really affected older rotaries more than the RENESIS. If this is the case, in some instances the seal can be un-stuck by putting some oil with high levels of detergents (typically ATF) into the chamber and letting it soak. I think this is pretty unlikely to be the case with yours based on what you've posted.

My advice (you didn't ask for it but it's free, so take that for what it's worth) is to have them do the coils and plugs and not the cleaning. Have them provide the compression numbers. This will inform you of what steps to take next. From what you've described the engine might have low compression, but it sounds like it's fine. These cars can run for many years with low compression in the rear rotor and other than a little loss in power and sometimes some hot hard-starting have no other ill effects.

Alan 07-12-2017 11:48 AM

Thanks for the advice .. .I really appreciate it !!

I had told the dealer to go ahead with what they wanted to do and then just called them after reading your message and they clarified that they wanted to soak the rotors in oil to I guess help something with the seals he had said :dunno:

They also gave me the compression numbers

Front 5.7 & 5.2

Rear 6.5, 6.4, 6.2

I hope I didn't make a mistake telling them to go ahead with it.

John V 07-12-2017 12:39 PM

You're missing a compression number up front. It's also odd that the front rotor has lower compression than the rear. That's very uncommon.

Soaking in oil won't hurt the engine, but you'll be paying for something that likely won't help anything.

With those compression numbers it really just needs a new / rebuilt engine.

Alan 07-12-2017 05:34 PM

I called the dealer to double check and he said the compression in the front was definitely lower then the rear which he said is unusual as well.

Do you think it definitely needs a rebuilt or replacement engine ?

The dealer said a new engine is in the $6k range :eek: ... isn't a rebuild in the $2k range ?

I was searching online and I don't see any shops on Long Island that are rotary specialist ... are you interested in another side project at John V's garage :dunno:

clyde 07-13-2017 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 508138)
I called the dealer to double check and he said the compression in the front was definitely lower then the rear which he said is unusual as well.

Do you think it definitely needs a rebuilt or replacement engine ?

The dealer said a new engine is in the $6k range :eek: ... isn't a rebuild in the $2k range ?

I was searching online and I don't see any shops on Long Island that are rotary specialist ... are you interested in another side project at John V's garage :dunno:

If JV isn't, there's someone else we could ask for you.

John V 07-13-2017 07:45 AM

It doesn't *need* anything. If it runs okay with new coils and plugs, drive it. If you get sick of it, sell it. :dunno: The low compression is unlikely to be fixed with anything other than a rebuild. There's an off chance that their oil-soak could do something, but my guess is it won't.

Engine rebuild costs depend on what needs to be replaced. It's possible to do a tear-down, clean the carbon off of everything, throw new seals and springs at it and slap it back together for under a grand. Such an engine will run fine and likely give many years of service. A full rebuild will involve evaluating all of the housings and the rotors and determining what is good and what needs to be replaced. New rotor housings are upwards of $500 each for the RENESIS. Side housings usually can be reused, but they're on the same order of magnitude for cost if they need replacement. I don't remember how much RENESIS rotors go for these days but $500-$1000 each doesn't seem unlikely. So a "full" rebuild could easily cost $4k just in parts.

I do like rebuilding rotaries but I don't see myself wanting to take that on in the near future. I have a pretty full plate right now.

Alan 07-13-2017 05:05 PM

Ok good news ... just got the car back and as the dealer mechanic put it .. it is running strong. Still not the fastest thing but it is driving like I remember it should.

Jeff_DML 07-13-2017 05:18 PM

congrats for getting it up and running

post up some pics if you dont mind, stick right?

Alan 07-13-2017 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff_DML (Post 508227)
post up some pics if you dont mind, stick right?

I will take some this weekend ... yes it's a stick :thumbup:

Btw it does have a sunroof.

rumatt 07-13-2017 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 508226)
Ok good news ... just got the car back and as the dealer mechanic put it .. it is running strong. Still not the fastest thing but it is driving like I remember it should.

That's awesome!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Alan 07-16-2017 05:04 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Took out the RX-8 today and I have to tell you this car is really fun to drive ... I really am enjoying it, it is pulling strong and feeling great. It needs bluetooth and sirius radio but I'm sure there must be some simple solutions for this ... plus if it was red, black or white that would be better :cool:

Here are a few cell phone pics ...

Jeff_DML 07-16-2017 11:12 PM

:cool:


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