Base Taycan announced (RWD/80k). Anyone intrigued?
 

Happened to see this on some feed I subscribed to from car and driver:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...del-announced/

I hadn't really paid much attention to this car given the nosebleed prices of the versions that are out currently. 80k is still a ton of money, but it atleast caused me to go down the rabbit hole of configurators and research.

I have to say I'm pretty intrigued by this car-- love the way it looks (they've finally captured the look of a 4 door 911 imo), and by all accounts its amazing to drive. The low range that's been adverstised (~200 EPA iirc) is apparently very conservative and C&D some test where they found that a taycan turbo and model s performance were only about 10 miles apart in real world range or something. Plus as more high speed chargers are deployed, it'll be capable of charging from 5-80% in like 20 minutes or so. Kind of disappointing that its not a hatchback and it does seem to be pretty cramped given the size of the car (its about the size of a 5 series). The over reliance on touch screens is also a bit annoying (including the air vents!!).

Overall, I like the idea of a Porsche that a) looks great b) drives great c) has potentially much lower running costs than typical Porsches. As for the price, it's easy to add 15k of options just to get the stuff you'd assume was standard (typical), but it is eligible for 7.5k tax credit, plus its not some super rare GT car where you can't negotiate. Anyway, its been a fun rabbit hole to go down.

If I needed a new sedan, sure. I certainly would consider it before a Tesla.

But I don't see myself buying a new car (except for a Boxster or similar) for several years.

The open question for me on all the non-Tesla EVs announced recently is how well their charging networks will be built out and scale. I am intrigued by the Taycan, and for the reasons you mention the range doesn't worry me that much--but only if the charging network is reasonably robust.

Do you use the Tesla chargers a lot? seems like only for road trips in which I would prefer to use a gas car anyhow. Basically I see my self charging at home or work almost all the time.

Base Taycan announced (RWD/80k). Anyone intrigued?
 

Given the huge push toward EVs, I’m pretty certain there will be acceptable coverage for non Teslas within a couple years. Musk had also mentioned something about opening up their network but who knows if that woukd actually happen. On a related note, it looks like the taycan will support some ISO standard (as of 21my) that allows the car to directky handle the authentucation/payment without messing with apps, credit cards etc. So the usability of non tesla charging networks is going to improve as well.

Personally, I’ve realized that we only take trips longer than 200 miles a day maybe a few times a year. Even with the current electrify America network, it could still work in those few cases.

Can’t believe im already trying hard to rationalize a taycan :)


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That was my experience with the eGolf. I think it will be a long while before I am comfortable relying on electrical chargers to continue my travels or being able to return unless I am confident about the availability of the charger (workplace or someone's home I am visiting). I rather take an IC or hybrid car until then.

I (used to) drive to NYC and Atlantic City regularly, and we would typically take the Tesla. The Model 3 is our biggest car! And it actually is a nicer car on trips than the BMW, charging aside, and on the trip to NYC you only need one charging stop.

But yeah, even apart from the NYC and AC trips, I generally take the Tesla on road trips.

EDIT: To FC's point above, the Tesla network on the East Coast anyway is robust enough that I don't really give it a second thought; these days there are multiple chargers en route so even if one is offline or full it's easy enough to divert.

The Electrify America network is coming along pretty well, although its still fairly far behind Tesla's Supercharger network. But at least they are following the same model of multiple chargers (4-12) per station. This is the VW-funded network...

Here's their map: https://www.electrifyamerica.com/loc.../?search=77429

But the Taycan and most other EVs use the CCS/SAE standard for DC fast charging (Basically everyone except Tesla and Nissan these days) -- if you go to plugshare.com, you can filter chargers to just those and see all sites from all charging networks. Its getting pretty decent for those that can do most of their charging at home...

Tesla has released a CCS adapter outside the US, and rumors are that it is coming to the US also. There's also a 3rd party CCS-to-Tesla adapter that appears to work, but its $980 (article here: https://insideevs.com/news/463721/te...adapter-setec/ ). This would open up Tesla to these 3rd party charging networks. I bought Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter for a road trip a few years ago, but honestly haven't had a need for it since then -- Superchargers have met our road trip needs pretty well.

Yeah, decent coverage; it looks like they have a deal with Walmart and Target and Wawa, so quite a few colocations there. There's one at the Target near me; it's mostly empty but every now and then there are a few cars there. I think maybe the dealers are using it to juice their inventory cars.

The problem with those locations can be that they aren't exactly right on the highway. The one in Falls Church, VA is...not conveniently located if you're trying to get to it from the Beltway. But the coverage looks solid and good enough that I could make a NYC run without much trouble.

So, i haven't delved into this. But does the Taycan have a hatchback?

Never mind. Finally found some shots of the rear open.

Given that it's not a hatch and only seats four, that really removes a lot of the utility. It is cool looking, but I'd need more flexibility to make it my one and only car. And that's the only way I could swing it.

Same - it'd have to be my only car. Technically I probably dont need a hatch but it would be annoying not having one. Looks like you can option a regular backseat btw. They do have plans to bring out a wagon version called the "Cross turismo". Not sure if I like...certainly doesn't grab me the way the sedan does.
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche...-cross-turismo

It's a little hard for me to tell how big the cargo space is. If it's roughly the same as the Model 3 (and it looks like it could be), that would be fine even without the hatch.

Was trying to figure that out as well. Turns out that the 4S (and below) has more room than the turbo due to a smaller motor (i think). Think its 14 cubic feet plus a 3 cubic foot frunk for 17 total. All the info on the model 3 i found seems to list it as 15 total, so am guessing the trunk alone is about 12-13? Surprisingly, the 3 series now has a 17 cubic foot trunk (was curious so did a quick google search).

This is really hard for me to believe; idk, maybe it's something about the trunk shapes, but the Tesla's trunk is definitely more usable than the F80's. But maybe the new 3er is bigger?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...space-storage/

Yeah I think the f30/80 trunk is only 13 cubic feet. I’m guessing the Tesla’s flatter floor and wider opening helps as well.


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zero locations in Austin

It’s a lot more interesting to me than a Model S, but I can’t see wanting to spend that much on an appliance.

Electrify America has a station in Round Rock... These really need to be between cities, not necessarily in cities.

Other networks and independent locations tend to cover the cities. Looks to be ~20 of them in the broader Austin area (Round Rock to a bit south). Some of those are at car dealerships (including one at a Harley dealer...), so not necessarily usable...

From all the reviews I've watched and read, it does seem like Porsche has managed to create something that "gives the fizz" and not just another EV appliance. To me, the most interetsing one I watched was a reviewer who specializes in doing range reviews of EVs (not sure how i even ended up watching it). In his Taycan 4s review he was doing a boring "range test" but then at the end started to have some fun with the car. He was like "i'm not a car guy and I'm not rich but I really want this car. There's just something about the way it drives". He owns a Model 3 performance, so he's used to fast EVs. Plenty of mainstream car reviewers seem to be equally enthusiastic about it as well. Personally, I haven't driven one yet so not sure how i'd actually feel about it but it does seem like Porsche may have done this very well.

Yeah I have read the same thing but I think Nick's frame of reverence is a bit skewed :eeps::D

The Taycan looks like a really cool car but I don’t think I would want to have a sedan with rear wheel drive especially after driving an Electric car and seeing how they have instant power I would think AWD is important.

RWD electric cars are fun, same as RWD ice cars. I bought a P85+ Intentionally because it was one of the last hi po RWD Teslas.

You can do a lot more with AWD obviously but given that it’s a 20k+ up charge on the Taycan (and you can get the bigger battery on the RWD) it’s not a no-brainer to me.

I dunno. I can see an argument for the fact that EV has so much torque that you might as well go for the cartoonish-levels-of-acceleration fun angle with AWD, whereas a RWD ICE give you more purist/Neanderthal-type fun.

What are your driving use cases? Did you (pre-covid) you commute to work with a car? How many trips per year? Where and for how many days?

I never used to ask myself these questions for years beyond 1. is it fun to drive 2. how is it for a summer trip? a ski trip? 3. need decent looks, depreciation & reliability.

For an EV, I think I'd need to think a little harder. How long are the trips? How many days stay? Do I go somewhere remote/off the beaten path, or stick to main/busy corridors and stay in modern hotels? I agree that many people overweight their rare trips that they could handle with rentals.

My trips are few as well but my commute is non-existent. If I were perfectly rational, I would not only sell my cars to get an EV, I'd sell the EV, not have a car and only rent / turo / silvercar as needed.

Base Taycan announced (RWD/80k). Anyone intrigued?
 

Yeah will be interesting to see how much the regular “4” version costs (I assume they’ll eventually introduce it in keeping their other model lines.) That being said, it’s not like the base taycan has an overwhelming amount of power so the difference in its ability to put down power might not be that different. Also with electric motors, traction control can be more fine grained and precise as well.


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RWD makes it more appealing to me than AWD certainly, but at $80k I'm not the target market.

From people I trust who have driven both, the RWD Tesla Model 3 is a lot more fun on the street than the AWD version. They report better steering feel and that the car feels more nimble and tossable. Acceleration in the real world is still better than 99% of vehicles on the road, so what you give up to the AWD version is a don't-care IMO.

Makes sense...similar to the effect AWD has on ICE cars as well. It's funny- back when I had my e46 I used to be a diehard "RWD + snow tires is all you need". I suspect that a RWD EV is also able to approximate (actually do better than), what a limited slip diff can do in terms of sending the right amount of power to each rear wheel. Could be wrong about that though.

So long as it's a single power source (as opposed to individual motors for each wheel) the same problem exists as with a gas engine. I'd fully expect that the Taycan has a limited slip rear diff, but haven't done any research to support that expectation.

Sending power to the front wheels pollutes the steering feel regardless of whether the power source is an ICE or an electric motor, and the extra weight doesn't do it any favors either.

torque vectoring electrically controlled diff per the literature. so, yes, limited slip. curious what the durability of that thing is?

With the exception of the early plebian-model water-cooled engines, Porsche reliability seems to be pretty good, so.. :dunno:

Yeah, but limited slip diffs are wear items. Most people will never even know that theirs has failed.

For sure-- yeah I used to commute but I think I'll be working mostly remote even when COVID ends. That being said, even during covid we've managed to put about 10k a year on our car so it still gets used plenty. Thinking about the longer trips we make, the vast majority are no more than 100 miles each way. So pretty much any long range EV would be able to handle it without necessarily even having to charge at the destination or en route. For the very rare trips that exceed that mileage, could either rent or do a little planning to make use of high speed or destination charging.

Most driving is the typical around town stuff where EVs shine. Other than the price, the other issues that I'd have with the Taycan sedan are potentailly low ground clearance and lack of a hatchback. The upcoming wagon version might solve those issues, but my guess is Porsche will charge atleast 10k more for it.

Anyway, this isn't something I'd consider getting in the near future, but buying a used one in a few years might be appealing (given the likely lower maintenance/repair costs). It's been a while since I've been excited by any new car, so it's been fun to find a car that I find appealing enough to research and maybe aspire to owning one day.

To be honest, the joy of shifting a manual transmission is the key component of enjoying a car for me. If I'm not going to have that, then all that really matters is whether or not it's comfortable and quiet, because I'm not really going to be entertained.

Yeah, it's true that an automatic car can be a joy when pushed towards the edge. Aside from all the mechanical failures, I actually did enjoy my SMGII E46 - but that was also at a point when I was doing dozens of track days per year, plus conepacking. Since I'm not doing that, and since these new cars are all so fast that it's zero-to-jail in 3 seconds, the question is "how entertaining are they when driven at 5-20% of their capability?"

Looks like its actually a 1500 option atlleast on the base model. ITs called Porsche Torque Vectoring plus I guess. Porsche's option names and descriptions are always kind of obtuse. If "PTV plus" is standard, does that imply that there is a regular "non plus" version that is standard. Hard to tell. Probably just a brake based system if anything.

:ack:

Yeah I get that. Used to be a die hard manual guy as well. Having now had a few automatic cars (ZF 8 speed), I've realized that I can enjoy car's chassis and steering tuning in that 5-20% daily driving zone. Used to mess with the paddles, but dont' anymore so having an EV with no transmission (ok fine the taycan has a 2 speed), isn't a big stretch. Engine sound is the other thing, but frankly, none of the modern turbo cars sound all that inspiring to me. I think the precise way you can apply and meter out power with an EV would be fun to play with in a daily driver- and with RWD all the better.

Will probably end up buying an older car with a stick again at some point.

True story, I had never heard the term "conepacking" so I asked someone if they knew what it meant. The reply: "Yeah. it's what club racing backmarkers call autocross."

Got LOL out of me

:lol:

I never thought our views would converge as much... You've always been wise now you are getting older. :lol:

Well, my options are certainly narrowing.