EVs
 

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/attach...1&d=1619097533

I was just watching this Magnus Walker video of the base Taycan wagon and it dawned on me. I already knew that I liked the Taycan. There's a lot I really like about the Cadillac Lyriq. If I get over the "Mustang" part of the Mach E's name, there's a lot to like there, too. The Polestar 2 is nice. And on and on.

All these electric vehicles have me kind of excited for cars. The ones I just named are all cars I can see myself owning. There's a manufacturer that, maybe, is doing electric vehicle specific things better than the others, but not much. And again, just "maybe." But that manufacturer is not represented on that list. The only vehicles they make are electric and they definitely built a better mousetrap. Initially.

But why aren't any of them on this list? Outside and in, the ones on the list look interesting to me. They look cool. They make me feel something. The manufacturer not represented makes cold, boring eggs that look funny. The ones on the list build cars like they know what they're doing and they tend to build cars that are screwed together well. The manufacturer not represented builds cars with an attention to detail like the Friday afternoon shift at a 1970s era GM plant. [JST says that last line isn't worth a whole lot. Ok. -ed] The manufacturers represented build real cars, not sophomoric butthole jokes.

I think the sleeping giant has woken. I don't know if the upstart manufacturer will ultimately prosper or die, but the tortoise and hare story comes to mind.

The "Teslas are built like shit" takes from people who haven't owned a Tesla are not worth a whole lot.

That a multi-time owner's take on a "this manufacturer builds boring cars that have grown stagnant while many others are launching emotive cars" is to only pinpoint a minor aside supported by industry and market wide conventional wisdom is of similarly dubious value.

But, perhaps accurate and correct, so so noted and the original post has been edited to reflect.

Yep - this pretty much aligns with my thoughts as well. Ever since the introduction of the Mach E and Taycan, I'm not seeing enough that's special about Teslas to make up for some of the downsides. Tesla does still do some things better than any other manufacturer , but to me, those things are not compelling enough to make up for the some of the downsides. I liked the looks and specs of the Model S enough to almost convince myself to buy one a few years ago, but in the end, it just wasn't the complete package i was looking for. The fact that I'm much more excited about the Taycan CT also shows that EVs are finally getting good enough to have wider appeal. I know the Model S still wins on "value for money" but at 80k+ there has to be an emotional component as well.

That's fair. Having driven the Taycan and owning a Model 3, I am not sure I'd really characterize the Taycan as "more emotive" than the Model 3. It looks better (from some angles, though the Taycan "face" is less and less attractive the more I see it). It makes fake motor noises. It has a lot of Porsche badges. But...it's an EV. It drives like an EV. It's slower than the Tesla and costs more. It handles better and in that sense is more fun to drive, but to me it doesn't feel much like a sports car.

I haven't driven a Mach E, though I can see the arguments for the Mach E over the Model Y. It's certainly a nicer looking car.

I guess all of this is very subjective. I might still end up with a Taycan or a Mach E (or even a Lyriq) instead of whatever the next Tesla is, assuming the charging network issue doesn't turn out to be a deal breaker. But it's really hard for me to say "wow, the legacy guys have finally figured this out in a way Tesla hasn't by building cars that appeal to me emotionally," when I just don't see much difference between the widgets they're building and the widgets Tesla is building, and the "emotion" of the Taycan and the Mach E seem to come just from the badges that they are wearing.

The Taycan isn't meaningfully slower than the Tesla, but the fact that it maintains that speed as the battery discharges while the Tesla doesn't is more important.

As I see it, those two things are range and recharging network, which to me, are the biggest two things that matter right now in this space.

I like the Taycan CrossTurismo, and the Audi sibling far more from a looks and real car standpoint. I think the polestar and I4 are nice packages as well. I know my use case is outside of most peoples' here, but I need a car that will reliably do 350 miles on a tank of gas highway cruising at 80mph. As soon as there is an EV that can do that for $60k while carrying 4 ppl in the cabin and a dog in the trunk, I'm in.

Caveat, I don't want to shift into drive on a touch screen, I want turn signal stalks, I want comfortable seats and good ergonomics.

It's literally not, unless you plan to track it, which I don't. And I suspect most people buying these cars aren't, either.

In 7 years, I have never encountered a situation where I noticed a degradation in performance based either on battery SOC or driving history. Like the comment about build quality, this is one of those things people talk about but it doesn't mean anything in the real world.

Maybe not, but if that isn't important, then the small difference in acceleration between the Taycan and the 3 isn't either.

:dunno: The difference between the 4S and the 3 is small. The difference between the base Taycan and the 3 is a lot bigger (the base Taycan does 0-60 in 5.1 seconds, which is about two seconds slower than the Model 3). The 4S is basically double the price of the 3, and the base Taycan still costs 20-30K more.