carmudgeons.com

carmudgeons.com (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/index.php)
-   Perseverators Anonymous (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/forumdisplay.php?f=28)
-   -   No more SUV shopping (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=143682)

equ 01-06-2018 08:45 PM

No more SUV shopping
 
Signed the papers today.

ZBB 01-06-2018 09:12 PM

What did you get?

equ 01-06-2018 09:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel Overland. Picking up Monday or Tuesday.

Over twenty cars in my life. This definitely breaks the pattern:
- second SUV ever (after short lived x5 diesel)
- second diesel ever (after said x5d)
- second domestic ever (after my first car, an absolute POS mercury marquis)
- third automatic ever (after mercury and x5d)

Color is mostly gray but has enough brown to be interesting in person, similar to sparkling graphite perhaps, but lighter. So I like that a lot. I love the interior and stitched leather. Wanted the diesel after driving the usual pentastar six and the hemi. And condition was great. It was very clean for a used suv, more so than can be achieved by detailing. It has the tow package as well. It has air suspension, rides "sportier" as well as the capacity to raise. So it has almost everything I looked for except for one thing, the rear e-LSD (so it's quadra-trac ii instead of quadra-drive ii). Well, I had to compromise somewhere and in an awd vehicle with raising and locking center ability, I think I can give up on the rear differential. Sure would have been nice, but impossible to find.

The other SUV I liked to drive was the cayenne, but frankly I preferred the simpler and seemingly more spacious interior, less luxury image.

clyde 01-06-2018 10:20 PM

Enjoy!

3LOU5 01-07-2018 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 520192)
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel Overland. Picking up Monday or Tuesday.

Over twenty cars in my life. This definitely breaks the pattern:
- second SUV ever (after short lived x5 diesel)
- second diesel ever (after said x5d)
- second domestic ever (after my first car, an absolute POS mercury marquis)
- third automatic ever (after mercury and x5d)

Color is mostly gray but has enough brown to be interesting in person, similar to sparkling graphite perhaps, but lighter. So I like that a lot. I love the interior and stitched leather. Wanted the diesel after driving the usual pentastar six and the hemi. And condition was great. It was very clean for a used suv, more so than can be achieved by detailing. It has the tow package as well. It has air suspension, rides "sportier" as well as the capacity to raise. So it has almost everything I looked for except for one thing, the rear e-LSD (so it's quadra-trac ii instead of quadra-drive ii). Well, I had to compromise somewhere and in an awd vehicle with raising and locking center ability, I think I can give up on the rear differential. Sure would have been nice, but impossible to find.

The other SUV I liked to drive was the cayenne, but frankly I preferred the simpler and seemingly more spacious interior, less luxury image.

Nice rig.

May you enjoy many trouble-free miles with her !!

equ 01-07-2018 05:49 AM

Thank you folks. The 2011 update to the JGC was significant. I was originally looking at 2011-2013 to keep the price down. Drove a hemi, liked it, thought about it, could not come to terms with expected realistic MPG (12-14). Then realized that the 2014 facelift is also pretty significant, especially transmission (8-speed ZF & paddles), displays/entertainment and perhaps some handling improvements (elk test, a long story). So that's how the budget crept up.

rumatt 01-07-2018 09:40 AM

Really cool. I'm curious to hear your thoughts over time.

Now.... What snow tires are you putting on it?

wdc330i 01-07-2018 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 520198)
Thank you folks. The 2011 update to the JGC was significant. I was originally looking at 2011-2013 to keep the price down. Drove a hemi, liked it, thought about it, could not come to terms with expected realistic MPG (12-14). Then realized that the 2014 facelift is also pretty significant, especially transmission (8-speed ZF & paddles), displays/entertainment and perhaps some handling improvements (elk test, a long story). So that's how the budget crept up.

Congrats! Should be a great fit for your needs. Just make sure it’s had all the recalls done—if affected. My in-laws have one and love it, not sure what specs but likely leaner than yours.

JST 01-07-2018 11:32 AM

Hm.

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpo...82&postcount=6

rumatt 01-07-2018 01:45 PM

What made you go diesel?


Edit: I just read about the AWD modes. So Quadra trac 2 is pretty hardcore, just more off road focused.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/j...ed-106633.html

"Out of the two systems available for the Grand Cherokee, the Quadra-Trac II is the most capable version in off-road driving"

Alan 01-07-2018 02:03 PM

Those grand cherokees are great vehicles I think you made a reallly good choice. I’ve interested in how you end up liking the diesel ... my mother in the 80’s had a couple of diesel Mercedes which were loud, needed to be plugged in in the cold weather and were pretty slow.

A couple of years ago I got a Porsche Cayenne loaner and was really impressed with that vehicle ... the funny part is when I got out of it for the first time at my office I looked it over and saw the word diesel on the side of the car, I was so surprised because it was quick and quiet ... I had no idea it was a diesel.

equ 01-07-2018 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 520206)

I remember this well. Not even rereading the thread, I think it was you and Bren.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt (Post 520226)
What made you go diesel?


Edit: I just read about the AWD modes. So Quadra trac 2 is pretty hardcore, just more off road focused.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/j...ed-106633.html

"Out of the two systems available for the Grand Cherokee, the Quadra-Trac II is the most capable version in off-road driving"

Well there is a version above quadra trac ii, and that's quadra drive ii, comes with the off-road package or with the Summit (which is otherwise not that off-roady). Adds a e-LSD to the rear, all else the same with trac ii. I hope I find the traction of the JGC sufficient. If the center diff behaves close enough to any usual longitudinal manual audi/subaru, I'll be good. Especially with the increase in clearance.

My first test drive some months ago was in a 3.6L, the 90% easy-to-find engine. Also 87-gas, so many advantages. I found it a bit lacking (at the time I was Range Rover minded). I didn't like the sound much, it was a very short drive so I might not have been fair to it. That said, it is a normally aspirated six on a 5000-5200lb vehicle.

Last week, drove the Hemi 5.7L. Felt just right in terms of power. Online shopped, but I know myself, even if the fuel savings would never be made up for in price, I would not enjoy something that sucks gas so fast.

Drove the diesel, liked it. The car is an amalgam. The platform is borrowed from the Mercedes ML, the AWD/4WD is pure Jeep and this engine is 3.0L turbodiesel from VM Motori in Italy, a Fiat subsidiary. It did come together, for me (as did the RR supercharged full-sized). I really do like having large range and mid to high 20's in highway mpg's.

I realize there were quite a few hitches in its introduction. So I'm rolling the dice a bit here, between Jeep (not the most reliable brand), GC (not high on reliability scores) and adapted Euro-Fiat engines. I have a bit of warranty remaining and may buy an extended one. That's where domestic is a breath of air, everything costs much less than German-land.

lip277 01-07-2018 02:15 PM

Sounds like a good choice. Have not been paying attention to Jeep's much recently. But - from what you have above, seems an interesting mix of capabilities and companies...

Good luck with it.

equ 01-07-2018 03:40 PM

I've had Cayenne and X5 loaners over the years. The upper trim levels of the new JGC with either the diesel or the hemi plays in the same league. Maybe not the best in all ways, but not the worst by far. Add to that the affordability and the attractiveness of staying domestic (and getting to drive something that comfortable inside without an ostentatious luxo outside), this one seemed all lined up.

Lexus (one older LX and two fresh GX's that I checked out & test drove) as well as the Toyota 4runner do not come close in straight-line response, driving dynamics or interior. I'm sure they are more reliable, but I just couldn't get over the compromise. The 4runner did have excellent/better cargo space though. That will be missed.

rumatt 01-07-2018 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 520236)
I've had many Cayenne and X5 loaners over the years. The upper trim levels of the new JGC with either the diesel or the hemi plays in the same league. Maybe not best in all ways, but not worst either.

After owning it for a while I'm curious what you think of the ride & handling. I saw in one JGC review that the suspension was kind of floaty.

robg 01-07-2018 07:09 PM

Congrats!

Think I mentioned in another thread how much I enjoyed my Grand Cherokee rental recently. Had the 3.6, and like you, I'd want more power than that. Wasn't 100% sure if i'd find the seats comfortable on a long trip but otherwise really liked it.

Unlike Range Rover, I think it's cool that it lowers itself in "sport" mode when equipped w/ air suspension.

equ 01-07-2018 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt (Post 520246)
After owning it for a while I'm curious what you think of the ride & handling. I saw in one JGC review that the suspension was kind of floaty.

The air suspension is firmer. All SUV's have to comprise between floaty/rolling handling vs. hard ride. Except perhaps the full-sized RR, which is out of my budget to maintain.

lemming 01-07-2018 08:45 PM

Awesome. Please keep us updated over time with the ownership experience. Am looking at a diesel JGC also! Or X5d. (For the inevitable time when I balk at one of the E61 repairs).

rumatt 01-08-2018 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 520251)
The air suspension is firmer.

One review said the air suspension was floaty. The other said it was too firm. Pffft. I'll just wait to hear your review. :)

Remind me why you didn't want an X5 again though? Price? And image?

equ 01-08-2018 03:14 AM

I've owned an X5. Interestingly, my mind worked in similar ways in late 2013, when my a4 hit 4yrs/45k and I felt like a change. I wanted a Toyota or Jeep-like SUV. Found a 6-speed FJ Cruiser sitting in my Audi dealer. I w ent to check it out, sat in it and ran out of it like the plague. The cutesy interior and the visibility were so bad for me that I did not even start the engine. A nice Vermillion Metallic/Brown X5d was sitting beside it. I took it on a drive, thought I liked it. I also realized it was previously CPO'd by BMW but was not being marked up as such (being sold by an Audi dealer - I guess they don't read their own carfaxes). Arguably, at the time I didn't have a 100lb puppy (she's mostly done growing but not entirely sure).

Anyway, for me it was the worst purchase ever.

Did not have the comfort seats or adaptive suspension. The ride sucked. I changed the wheels and tires, each corner was like 70 to 80lbs. Lifting them sucked. Perhaps the JGC seats are not its strongest point, but I can lift its wheels & tires (snagged a set of used Blizzaks last night before taking delivery). Once out of the spacious suburbs where I test drove it, the x5 felt very wide. It also had a whiff of diesel fumes in it. I complained (as did the previous owner). Perhaps it wasn't a real problem, but I got a whiff. Perhaps it needed one long highway trip to regen and burn things off. I'm not sure. My good friend's ML350 CDI was quiet and smooth and clean by comparison. So was the TDI we had for 50k miles.

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of xdrive and its level of grip. I didn't get to test the x5 through a full winter, just couldn't bear it.

As a German SUV, I would consider a 2011+ Cayenne (either as 3.6L 6-speed or as a TDI), but they are rare and expensive. I've never found their seats all that comfortable. The bottom cushion has strange bolsters. They also have some kind of transfer case issue on certain model lines.

Touareg's are cheaper but I don't particularly like how the new ones look. I didn't mind how the 2004's looked back in the day. I never drove a modern one, but the old one felt like a Cayenne with bad steering, so I'm not sure I could make peace with that.

equ 01-08-2018 03:20 AM

I really found two companies who seem to have both off and on road covered, Land Rover (pretty much any of them) and Jeep (perhaps only the GC).

The GX/Land Cruiser/LX have off-road covered but boy are the GX & Land Cruiser floaty. The 4runner Limited is less so, but still a bit trucky and - for me - a bit slow and plain jane. Of the Toyota's it's still the one I'd pick. The used prices are insanely high though. The Jeep GC dollar goes much further. We'll see if this bet pays off.

kognito 01-08-2018 09:12 AM

Congrats and enjoy!

Don't know if you are aware of this, or not. But NJ's no pump gas laws are just for gas. With my first diesel, I pulled up to the diesel pump and waited, and waited for someone to pump my fuel . . . .didn't happen.

I still own a small, rectangle tupperware container that held my gloves for use when pumping diesel. Used to keep it of the floor right behind the driver seat

bren 01-08-2018 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt (Post 520260)
One review said the air suspension was floaty. The other said it was too firm. Pffft. I'll just wait to hear your review. :)

Remind me why you didn't want an X5 again though? Price? And image?

Compared to any BMW, the Jeep is floaty. It's not designed with any sporting-pretension at all. The steering is also terribly vague. That said (when not in for seemingly near constant recalls) they are very good for what they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kognito (Post 520271)
Congrats and enjoy!

Don't know if you are aware of this, or not. But NJ's no pump gas laws are just for gas. With my first diesel, I pulled up to the diesel pump and waited, and waited for someone to pump my fuel . . . .didn't happen.

I still own a small, rectangle tupperware container that held my gloves for use when pumping diesel. Used to keep it of the floor right behind the driver seat

That's interesting, because a guy definitely came out to fuel up my truck when I was in Jersey a couple of years ago. I remember because I didn't know the rules - are you expected to tip those guys? :eeps:

FC 01-08-2018 11:25 AM

Congrats! I considered a new one at the time I was looking at the LR4, but when new (would have been MY2014) it was surprisingly close in price to the LR4 and had much less interior space.

Let me know how you like it!

robg 01-08-2018 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bren (Post 520272)
Compared to any BMW, the Jeep is floaty. It's not designed with any sporting-pretension at all. The steering is also terribly vague. That said (when not in for seemingly near constant recalls) they are very good for what they are.



That's interesting, because a guy definitely came out to fuel up my truck when I was in Jersey a couple of years ago. I remember because I didn't know the rules - are you expected to tip those guys? :eeps:

When I rented a Grand Cherokee recently, I actually thought the steering felt better than most EPS BMWs. Weight felt more natural and there was no loose/dead spot on-center. It's no sports car, but I was pleasantly suprised the steering.

equ 01-08-2018 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robg (Post 520297)
When I rented a Grand Cherokee recently, I actually thought the steering felt better than most EPS BMWs. Weight felt more natural and there was no loose/dead spot on-center. It's no sports car, but I was pleasantly suprised the steering.

I felt the same way. It seemed like a reasonable, not too trucky drive. Hopefully, I'll continue to feel that way.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

lemming 01-08-2018 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 520304)
I felt the same way. It seemed like a reasonable, not too trucky drive. Hopefully, I'll continue to feel that way.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

love the new JGC interior --it is very nice. i'm just meh about the 3.6L V6. very curious to hear how the diesel powerplant works out for you.

wdc330i 01-08-2018 09:35 PM

I think you just have to have a lower bar for SUVs. They need to be practical, safe, and decent to drive. Then you have to have a fun car to offset it. I can’t ever see spending big money again on an SUV. We’ll drive the X5 into the ground. And concentrate our future dollars and energies on the fun cars (and repairing the X5 as needed.)

equ 01-08-2018 09:51 PM

Drove it home, about 30 miles in a dark, icy/rainy night.

It's going to be a big adjustment. I have had only german cars (audi, porsche & bmw) since 2000.

Steering is decent. It is a very tall truck from the inside, Q5's and other crossovers look like cars. It was a very smooth ride home on the air suspension, especially on the highway. Less great on broken city streets with the 20" wheels. Not terrible.

There is definitely float & lean. The "on stilts" feeling is there as it is with most every SUV.

The engine & transmission are the best part. I got 29.4 mpg without trying. The 8-speed auto is very good, much better than the 6-speed in the older RR's that I was looking at. Like the TDI, you hear the diesel clatter at low speeds and from the outside, but not when cruising on the highway. Maybe on a ramp or an overtake. Enough power and twice the mileage of comparably torquey v8's.

The Overland is rather posh. Leather dash, 500W stereo, so lots of goodies that I've never had, even in expensive german machinery.

Some nitpicks:

- It's not pleasant to keep the vehicle at a stop in D. Not bad enough to shift to P, but definitely some vibes. I guess this is an autotragic thing. I hope buried in there is an auto-hold feature, but I'm not holding my breath. It won't matter on long trips.

- seats are a bit firm and a bit flat. prefer cushier and more bolstered. Lumbar support was sufficient. I don't think I have found the perfect driving position just yet but didn't try too hard.

- seems to have no auto wipers, crazy on such a loaded spec

That's about it. I have lowered dynamic expectations and it meets them just fine. Hopefully, it'll grow on me.

bren 01-08-2018 10:12 PM

Check your control settings in the computer for the auto wipers. It should be in there.

equ 01-08-2018 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bren (Post 520341)
Check your control settings in the computer for the auto wipers. It should be in there.

Yes, after I posted, I sat in the driveway and went through the settings and found the auto wipers.

Alas, no auto-hold in D to stop the creeping, only a hill hold. I did a search, Jeep calls it "Hold'n Go". Described in the manual, not available on any JGC even as an option.

rumatt 01-08-2018 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 520337)
I can’t ever see spending big money again on an SUV.

You sound regretful. Care to expand?

I'm guessing the idea is that it drives like a truck, so don't spent a shit ton as if that will make it more like a car?

rumatt 01-08-2018 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 520339)
There is definitely float & lean. The "on stilts" feeling is there as it is with most every SUV.

I was thinking about it... It basically weighs as much as a Chevy Silverado. If your brain is even remotely thinking "sport wagon" I'm guessing things won't end well.

Whereas if you start with the expectations of an off-road truck, the ride might make a lot more sense.

John V 01-09-2018 05:20 AM

Chrysler is notorious for the dashboard MPG gauge being overly optimistic, so temper your efficiency expectations some.

wdc330i 01-09-2018 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt (Post 520344)
You sound regretful. Care to expand?

I'm guessing the idea is that it drives like a truck, so don't spent a shit ton as if that will make it more like a car?

It drives better than a truck, and is probably about as good as it gets for an SUV except for a Cayenne, but, yeah, can’t compare to a proper car. It suits our family well when we need the space/highway safety/weather capability. But it gets left in the garage otherwise.

kognito 01-09-2018 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bren (Post 520272)

That's interesting, because a guy definitely came out to fuel up my truck when I was in Jersey a couple of years ago. I remember because I didn't know the rules - are you expected to tip those guys? :eeps:

I left Jersey in 2007, so maybe rules have changed, until I left I always had to pump my own diesel (many stations, but in northwest NJ). . . there must be a Gov. Christie meme out there of him pumping diesel in his beach chair, am I right?!?

zach 01-09-2018 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 520350)
It drives better than a truck, and is probably about as good as it gets for an SUV except for a Cayenne, but, yeah, can’t compare to a proper car. It suits our family well when we need the space/highway safety/weather capability. But it gets left in the garage otherwise.

Interesting. I've really come around on our F15 X5. The steering is still total garbage though. One distinct advantage over a wagon is the ability to drive up on curbs to load/unload in the city. We live on a very narrow street with minimal street parking so it's pretty handy, and wouldn't be possible in something like an E63 wagon.

JST 01-09-2018 09:44 AM

As the kids have gotten older, I've found any rationale for getting an SUV (or even a big wagon) diminishing.* Equ's use case is quite specific, and I guess if I lived somewhere where it really snowed I'd change my tune. But I weep for the impending future when everything is a crossover.




*please ignore the momentary G class insanity I experienced a few months ago. I'm better now. I think.

Plaz 01-09-2018 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bren (Post 520272)
are you expected to tip those guys? :eeps:

Absolutely not.

This is the only time of year I’m glad for NJ’s gas pumping rules. Oregon just bailed on mandatory full-serve, so we’re the only ones left.

3LOU5 01-09-2018 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ (Post 520339)
Drove it home, about 30 miles in a dark, icy/rainy night.

It's going to be a big adjustment. I have had only german cars (audi, porsche & bmw) since 2000.

Steering is decent. It is a very tall truck from the inside, Q5's and other crossovers look like cars. It was a very smooth ride home on the air suspension, especially on the highway. Less great on broken city streets with the 20" wheels. Not terrible.

There is definitely float & lean. The "on stilts" feeling is there as it is with most every SUV.

The engine & transmission are the best part. I got 29.4 mpg without trying. The 8-speed auto is very good, much better than the 6-speed in the older RR's that I was looking at. Like the TDI, you hear the diesel clatter at low speeds and from the outside, but not when cruising on the highway. Maybe on a ramp or an overtake. Enough power and twice the mileage of comparably torquey v8's.

The Overland is rather posh. Leather dash, 500W stereo, so lots of goodies that I've never had, even in expensive german machinery.

Some nitpicks:

- It's not pleasant to keep the vehicle at a stop in D. Not bad enough to shift to P, but definitely some vibes. I guess this is an autotragic thing. I hope buried in there is an auto-hold feature, but I'm not holding my breath. It won't matter on long trips.

- seats are a bit firm and a bit flat. prefer cushier and more bolstered. Lumbar support was sufficient. I don't think I have found the perfect driving position just yet but didn't try too hard.

- seems to have no auto wipers, crazy on such a loaded spec

That's about it. I have lowered dynamic expectations and it meets them just fine. Hopefully, it'll grow on me.

The beauty of driving a such a pig is that when you immediately hop in your Audi/BMW/whatever, it’ll drive and handle like a Ferrari, lol.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:26 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Forums © 2003-2008, 'Mudgeon Enterprises - Site hosting by AYN & Associates, LLC