What car would you buy and hold for 10+ years
 

Inspired by seeing a GS350 parked on the street this morning. I used to find the current gen completely fugly. But, maybe due to some of similarities between it and the latest 3 series (which i've now grown used to due to the sheer volume), I thought "hmm not too bad". It was a white F-sport version with grey wheels.

As a thought experiment, it got me thinking about what car I could buy and keep for 10+ years without too much worry and at a reasonable cost. That's how my parents always did it, but whenever i've run the math on a car i'd want it doesn't look very favorable vs a lease. I also understand buying/holding a classic car (like an air cooled 911 or something), but for this i'm thinking more of an everyday/daily driver type car.

Anyway, the criteria would be:
-have to be something with some practicality
-have good durability reliability
-be decent to drive and look at.
-be comfortable and have some creature comforts
-Have an average monthly ownership cost (taking into account depreciation/maintenance/repairs/cost of money) of no more than $300/month.

I say that because above that amount I think it probably just makes sense to just do serial bmw leases or something. Despite having good resale value, a new GS350 probably wouldn't cut it. Let's say a 10 year old one is worth around 10k. With 40k in depreciation, you're already at 333/month before the other costs. So maybe the best/lowest miles used IS or GS you can find for high 20s? And right out of the gate, they annoy w/ horrid infotainment and no folding rear seats. Camry V6 then? Or slightly used GTI for low 20s? Would almost certainly incur higher maintenance/repair costs though but less so than other european cars due to sheer ubiquity. What's the sweet spot (if any)?

This is interesting, I would think the cheapest way to own a decent car is to buy it a few years old with low miles.

Also I would add that it should be a really inexpensive car to begin with like a Kia Optima or Hyundai Sonata. These cars are nice looking, drive nicely and they have a lot of extra features standard. My friends sons Optima has heated/cooled seats, some self driving features and the bigger engine which is pretty fast.

987S. I could and did!

If we hadn't moved from WA to SC, Our Ford Fusion Titanium (AWD, turbo, nicely loaded) would have been a ten year car.

Yeah a Hyundai/Kia product probably makes a lot of sense. Dont they still have 10 year warranties as well?

Was thinking more of practical/4 door/daily driver type cars. Curious though- doesn't have to be exact but what would you estimate the average monthly cost to be for your 987 taking into account: maintenance, repairs, depreciation, interest/opportunity cost?

Guessing we will have our 4runner for 10 years+.

I rented one of those in Hawaii several years ago and really liked it. Still a good looking, comfortable sedan. Ford sync was buggy but i'm sure that's better now.

Something missing from the criteria list is use case. Is it a car that only gets a couple thousand miles a year? Or is something that needs to go 20k/year?

From a strictly dollars sensitive position, the 2008 Accord EX-L V6 w/Nav (eighth gen) I just bought for my kids makes a very strong case for itself. I've liked the 9th gen cars I've driven in practical terms. They're bland appliances, but just do their thing very, very well without inspiring rage in car people like the other appliancemobiles.

The new vs very recent used car market is still really weird. Not sure if my current Camaro experience is the best barometer, but I'm not sure the cost difference on a used current or last year's model is worth it for the time and miles you lose from the original warranty. This is a $46k MSRP car that will go new with a substantial discount, but identical used ones with 3-12 months of warranty used and 1-12k miles can only be had for about $1-2k less than a brand new one.

GT Silver /Espresso 991.2 C2 Cab with 10,082 miles and a 05/02/2017 in service date :eeps:

True - let’s say 12k a year. i agree that accords (and civics) get a pass from die hard car people. They have just enough cred.

How long do you see holding onto that accord?


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LR4 is 6.5yo and I’d be pissed if we don’t keep it for 10+ years. I hope to keep the M3 that long. I doubt any newer MT sedan will come out to lure me into replacing it.

I wish I could buy a 718 GTS. I mire I could hold it for 10+ years easily. If I had the room and money, I would have held my old 987S as well.

The goal/hope is to make it through summer 2022 and 200k (from 181k) without needing more than $2k in repairs and then see where we are.

My older daughter has her license and is driving it every day now. Expectation is she will leave the car here when leaving for college in the fall. My younger daughter will get her license about that time and then drive it every day. When the older daughter is in town, they will have to figure out who gets to drive it at a given time. Kinda interested in seeing how that turns out.

Ha! Great!

I can see keeping my 2 convertible that long, especially if I add a beater/hauler in the mix. It’s 3 years old and has 13k miles at this point. It’s a 2017, so the tech is livable, too,

It's hard to say; I'd have to tote up the receipts. Depreciation is probably 10K max. I'd guess I average about $1000/year on maintenance; most years it's less but there have been a couple of bigger bills. So, $167/mo? Plus insurance but that's really too hard to unpack.

Keep in mind I don't drive it much; if I had, the depreciation and maintenance probably would have been a fair amount higher (though I don't know about double).

Wow. Not bad to have a Porsche in the garage even if you don’t get a chance to drive it much. If you only had 1 car would it be any of your current vehicles or something else?


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:speechle:

1. Get a garage
2. Get a Porsche

Oops!

;)

Just one car? I'd try and make the Tesla work. It does everything pretty well, and the very few times I'd need to go beyond its range I'd rent something.

The Porsche is clearly the low-cost champ now, though, and honestly if you want a cheap daily and are OK with 2 seats, I think a 987 Cayman would do it.

I like the BMW, and it is close to the last of its kind (stick, high performance, etc), but the Tesla is nicer and more relaxing to drive, is much cheaper to run,* and is faster around town. Oh and it can carry more stuff. The few times I get to drive the BMW like it's meant to be driven wouldn't really make up for that.



*not including depreciation, because I bought the BMW used, so it already was 25K cheaper than it was new. But the BMW just had a $2000 36,000 mile service, which included $1400 to change the spark plugs, and it costs me $50 every week to fill up. The Tesla, at this point, doesn't have any annual or periodic maintenance required and costs probably a tenth of that to run.

Yeah figured the Tesla would be it. Even bought new, a base Model 3 could probably be owned for the equivalent of my (arbitrary) $300/month figure over 10 years. A bit more of a wildcard than a Camcord to be sure though.

Even if you did use the Porsche as a daily, I'm guessing the monthly cost would still work out to be less than 300 which is pretty incredible.

Seems like you've solved this riddle.

I have a feeling you'll end up with a 718 GTS eventually.

Out of curiousity, what would you buy today if you didn't have the LR4? Closest thing I can think of (boxy SUV w/ 3 rows thats not too long) is probably the Lexus GX. Doesnt look as cool as the LR4 to be sure.

The GX is a pretty good alternative. But I don't fool myself or others into justifying the LR4 for it's off-road prowess. For me it was the physical packaging and Swiss army-like versatility in cargo and people that won me over.

If I had a garage that could fit any SUV, I'd consider a few others along with GX. I still like the Mercedes SUVs but like all the Germans they are very expensive. For a good deal, I'd consider an Acadia/Traverse/Enclave version. I'd really have to test drive a bunch. It has been over 7 years since I spent time looking at SUVs in that category.

Totally get it. The LR3/4 have really started to get under my skin. There's something so satisfying about the design. So cool that you get a usable/comfortable 3rd row in such a short package. A keeper for sure.

The Acadia continues to drive impressively well for a big three row SUV, and it has a lot of space. Its interior is sort of meh, in the grand GM tradition--even in the high spec models it looks like the cheap version of an expensive car.

I really like the way the Aviator looks, and the specs are pretty compelling. I haven't driven either that or the Explorer yet, though.

But everyone says Kia/Hyundai have solved this problem better than anyone, and that the Telluride/Palisade are THE hot ticket in the segment. Worth putting up with Kia dealers? Idk, they can't be any worse than Honda dealers, can they?

I think so but I am not sure if that is transferable to the next owner.

Just happened to see that Doug Demuro uploaded this video recently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAezax2ugQU

(sub 30k Panamera). Will have to take a look later. First gen Panamera isn't my favorite design, but under 30k starts to be interesting. Interior of the car in his video looks super nice. Not sure it's something you'd want to try and keep for 10+ years though.

Coming up to 9 years with the 1M. Don't see any reason it won't go beyond 10.

My coworker had an Acadia and had nothing but problems with it.

She couldn't get rid of it fast enough, lol.

A top-of-the-line Honda Accord or Mazda6 would be my vote.

I can dig up the thread, but back in 2012 or so, a loaded Acadia was not that much less than my LR4 cost us.

Not saying our LR4 has not depreciated, but it has held up a lot better than a similar vintage Acadia. Though to be fair, it only has 42k miles after 6.5 years.

From the world Camrys/Accords/6's/etc, the Mazda 6 is SO much more attractive it's not even funny. And I've never driven a Mazda that for what it was, was not a pretty fun car to drive.

I was thinking about this thread this morning when I was driving into work. I think in today's day and age it is pretty easy to hit your parameters with any number of cars. Just thinking through three of the four I own now:

My 2003 E46 325xit is ~17 yrs old. I bought it 6 yrs ago for about $5500, it is worth probably 2500 now. It has cost us probably $4k in maintenance/upkeep (including snow tires) since we've owned it and it shows no signs of crapping out anytime soon. Insurance is cheap, and at its value, you only need comprehensive.

My 2011 E88 135i is turning turned 10 in November of 2019. I've personally owned it for 5+ years, during that time I needed an OFHG, 2 water pumps and a battery. Other than that is has been reliable through 108k miles. If it was $50k new and worth $15k now It would be pushing your ownership cost, but not by a ton and for my needs has been a great daily driver.

We bought our 2013 X5 four years ago for $23500. We've put 90k miles on it ourself since then (so much higher than average use case) and have only had a VCG to replace. Cost of ownership of that has been very low and projects to remain that way through its' 10 yr lifecycle.

Thanks! the 2013 x5 fits closest to what I had in mind (a practical comfortbale vehicle w/ 4 doors and some modern amenities), so that's great. 23500 sounds cheap for a 3 year old (at the time) x5. What was the mileage when you bought it?

You also reminded me that I actually owned an e46 325 from new for 10 years. Average ownership cost probably worked out around $300/month. Thing is, it likely would've been possible to lease a 3 series in 2001 for around 300/month (which started me down the path of leasing future bmws). In fact, I remember running scenarios in 2003 where it would have been possible to lease a 5 series (with european delivery) in the 200s. I did like that car but wouldnt want to go back to it as a daily driver. (Yes, some inflation adjustments would need to be done on these numbers).

That doug demuro video has me researching cheap panameras. Never was a huge fan of the looks but under 30 they start sounding interesting. Problem is I've quickly "slippery sloped" into more expensive versions like the GTS. They are also very color/wheel sensitive. I'd probably trust Porsche durability over the other german brands. I have no need for a car right now; this just started as a kind of "what if".

I test drove a GX (we are talking the baby landcruiser, right?) during my range rover search. It was not as good as the RR's (assuming that applies to the LR4) and not even the JGC. It was better than the landcruiser (the biggest, softest supertanker of them all).

Yes, that's the one. I did not even get a round to test driving it. I hear the Land Cruiser is the cat's pajama's, though. I'm surprised you did not like it.

Just checked out the GX out of curiousity. A couple of observations:
-Starts at 54k. Seems like a good deal for all you get plus comes with a v8. Granted that v8 is only 300 hp and in a heavy vehicle. Appears to be similar in many ways to an LR3 (which i guess would've been the competition when this thing was new 10 years ago!) I'm sure it's a vehicle that you can keep for 20+ years though. At that price it could be badged as a Toyota 4Runner and no one would blink.
BUT What is Lexus doing with their lineup?! It's crazy how old the IS, GS, and GX are at this point. I dont think any other luxury brand keeps models around so long past their prime date. And they dont even bother attempting to atleast standardize stuff like their infotainment. Seems like something you'd see from a small struggling company and not what you'd expect from a juggernaut like Toyota.

Overall it seems like the Japanese manufacturers have lost their appetite to really compete in the luxury segment leaving Genesis as the only real challenger to the europeans. Lincoln seems to be doing a surprisingly good job as well.

Here is the whole thread on my purchase saga. It had between 30 and 45k as I recall.

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showth...highlight=2013

You make a really good point ... what is with Lexus never changing their vehicles ... I remember looking at the GX what I think was in 2014 (3 Suv’s ago) and if i’m right it is the same exact car ... my friend has one and it is really outdated ... the GS I test drove in 2017 and back then it was outdated ... that was 2 cars ago ...

Apparently, the current GX was last redesigned in 2010! It does seem that Toyota takes a very conservative approach with their trucks so as to maximize durability/reliability, so I'm sure that's part of it, but for a luxury brand I think they have to do better. If not, just make the equivalent of a GX as a higher trim model of the 4runner.

Thanks! I vaguely recall this thread now, but it was fun reading through it again (complete with many posts from TD!). That gen X5 is still my favorite from in terms of looks. There seems to be a consensus that they are problematic but glad to hear that yours has been pretty bulletproof. I think i'd be very content daily driving one of those.