Replacing the Tesla?
 

As I mentioned elsewhere, it's time to at least start thinking about a replacement for the Model 3. It turns five this year, and the incident that kept it locked to my house for a week has shaken my faith in it. And that's without mentioning the Musk fuckery.

So, here's the problem.

We thought about a Mini Cooper, since my wife likes those, but that would make the BMW the family trip car and it's just not *quite* big enough for us and our luggage. The Tesla has more room--not a lot, but enough for one extra carry-on, which makes all the difference.

If you restrict your search to things that are bigger than the BMW, but still small enough to not be a nightmare to park downtown, you end up with a very limited range of vehicles.

In fact, you end up with, near as I can tell, two.

Audi A4 Allroad

This is a very pleasant car. It drives mostly like an A4; with a 261 hp version of the VW corporate 2 liter and a 7 speed DSG, it's responsive enough if not particularly fast. When optioned correctly, the interior feels quite nice in a German luxury sedan way. It has decent space inside, an actual spare tire, and things like optional rear window shades. In short, it's a really well designed all-rounder.

There are a few negatives, though. The infotainment system is a bit puzzling and restrictive (no moving the map while driving!). The lifted suspension needlessly makes the ride and handling worse than the sedan. But most importantly, it burns gas. I don't have an environmental objection to this, since all of my other cars do, too--but given my wife's commute, that's a non-trivial expense that we don't have in the Tesla, and she's gotten used to not going to gas stations.


Mustang Mach E GT

The Mach E is a really nice car. Ford clearly benchmarked Tesla, and it does most everything the Tesla does with a few nice old-school touches, like an actual key fob, a physical glove door latch, and real mirror controls. It's fast and feels better at higher speeds than the Tesla does. The giant screen works well, and everything is generally pretty intuitive.

At the same time, there are a few flies in the ointment, too. The interior materials are simply not as nice as the Audi, despite costing a good bit more. Unlike the Tesla, the Mach E has a bit of torque steer when you get on the accelerator. The range isn't quite as good as the Tesla, either, at least on paper, though real world they're likely quite similar. The suspension is stiff but it's a crossover so the handling is mediocre. And the crossover form factor means the car feels needlessly big, with little payoff in terms of cargo or people space.

Mostly, though, the thing that gives me pause about the Mach E is the charging network. Yes, it will have access to the Superchargers sometime next year (assuming Tesla meets the deadline for developing an adapter LOL). In the meantime, I'd be stuck with a charging network that is so thin and unreliable that a roadtrip in a Mach E literally made Jim Farley decide to do a deal with Tesla. If the CEO of Ford finds traveling in a Mach E frustrating, how am I going to feel about it?

There are other cars I considered and mostly ruled out for various reasons, like the A5 Sportback (no rear headroom), the i4 (too ugly, according to my wife, plus the range is too short), the 440i Gran Coupe (see i4), the Rivian (too big, too expensive), the Lucid (ditto), a used Panamera (too expensive, profoundly awful gas mileage), and probably some others I'm not thinking of.

I don't know. It's pretty hard to get excited about spending 50-60K on either of the cars above. Nothing about either really moves me, and neither really offers many advantages over the Tesla.



NB I have ruled out all gasoline powered crossovers because I just haven't been impressed with any of the ones I've driven; they've all been pretty bleh to drive, don't offer much in the way of cargo space beyond what I can find in the Audi wagon, and get shit for gas mileage. By far the worst was the Cadillac XT4, which rides like a Conestoga but has luggage room smaller than most saddlebags.

Is the cargo space comment ruling out other mid-sized sedans (5 series, E class, A6,…)? Also is the budget in the 50-60k range based on options you listed or open to spending more?

I don’t particularly want to spend more, but there’s no hard cap. Sedans like the 5er and the A6 are a possibility but again the bigger the car, the more it bumps up against my other constraints about parking and whatnot.

Replacing the Tesla?
 

Allroad probably checks alot of your boxes. Another wildcard would be a V60 T8 aka Recharge (the non Cross Country model - very rare since they are special order only)

Know you said you aren’t pleased with SUVs, curious what you have/haven’t driven in that class? SQ5, X3 M40, GLC43?

Its really too bad that non-Tesla charging is such a mess.

I drove a Mach E about 2 years ago -- just a standard test loop. It is a good product, but I felt it would be tough going from a Tesla to it.

Have you tested the Kia EV6 or Hyundai Ionic 5? They are surprisingly roomy and less of a crossover. What about the Ionic 6?

Both still have the CCS charging issues, but have you thought about doing a test run for the typical road trips you'd drive? Your 3 would need a hardware upgrade to use the adapter (I did the upgrade on mine -- hardware was ~$200 and I did it DIY, and we already have the CCS adapter for the Y). But you could rent a Polestar or other CCS car from Hertz for 1-2 days and give it a shot...

Allroad would be my choice from the group.

It’s really a shame that BMW pulled the plug (pun alert) on the X3 PHEV, because I’ll bet it handles better than the Allroad.

Kia Stinger is another outlier. It is kind of my 4 GC—four doors with a hatch—but may have more headroom?

And re: the headroom in my GC: My 6’2 son’s tall friends ride in the back (at least for short distances) with no issue.

If you could stand going to X5 size, the PHEV is a great all-around SUV. Although, admittedly, I prefer the X3 size when alone, but the X5 size is better at family trips/highway duty.

how much bigger is the g80 m3 vs yours (could you get that extra suitcase in the trunk)? If so, maybe swap the F30 for a new manual M3 and the Tesla for the Mini? When you say Mini Cooper are you thinking the 2 door our clubman? Just wondering how much extra room you'd be able to get with the "long wheelbase" mini.

Assuming the g80 doesn't work, I agree with FIL, check out the X3/Q5 stuff and if they don't move the needle then buy the allroad.

jpgurl has the Mustang since January (at least)...maybe reach out to her if she doesn't reply here?

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpo...9&postcount=36

Another thought: Roof box for the M3?

Lol I thought about the roof box but since I have the CF roof, the mounts for the roof rails aren’t there. I’ve seen people say you can drill the roof and install them but…yikes.

Stinger GT is a good call but they’re EOL; I suspect they’d be hard to find.

I haven’t liked the Q5s I’ve driven. Maybe the S would be different? But they all just feel like even less interesting versions of the A4.

I should try an X3, I guess. I’m opposed to them on philosophical grounds but I suppose they’re worth a look.

The EV6 is really quite cool but the charging network thing I think would really bum me out. At least the Mustang has the prospect of access to Superchargers.

I’ll have to check TDs M3 when it comes in, but I suspect it’s not that much bigger than the F80.

Oh and the Volvo is also a good call but whether or not it makes sense I don’t feel good about buying a Geely.

With the X3, it's essential that it has all the sport suspension bits. And, if it's like my car (and it should be), the gas mileage with the hybrid battery boost is really quite decent.

I suspect it would be a very livable addition to your fleet. You can even order it with a spare, but keep in mind that it raises the cargo floor a bit--not really a problem if you don't have animals that need to hop in back there.

Cargo space is not fantastic with all the seats in use, but then, there's always the roof box... Or, if you order the hitch (and you should), you can do a hitch-mounted box. The hitch would be handy for your bike as well.

Mine is a GT AWD with the extended range battery. I love it.

While I can't compare it to a Tesla, as I have never owned one, I love the MACH-E. I haven't experienced much torque steer but then again, I rarely 'floor it'. It's alarmingly fast without going WOT.

I agree that the interior materials are not as nice as Audis or BMWs I've owned in the past, but it still feels high end (to me at least). Granted I was coming from the Jeep Rubicon so everything seemed luxurious compared to that.

When cross shopping, the only other all-electrics I test drove were the Polestar and the Volvo XC Recharge. For both, the first word that came to mind was boring.

As you mentioned, the MACH-E will get to use the Tesla network sometime next year. Until then you could rent something for road trips? I have noticed that outside of Austin, the network for charging is sparse so I haven't considered any road trips. But I think we could manage one to Dallas or Houston if we needed to. Texas is huge so any road trips, we would take the husband's F150 with a ridiculous 500+ mile range tank. I haven't even used a fast charger here in Austin. We got a charger installed at the house a week after we bought the car.

What I really want doesn't exist, and that's an all electric Mini Countryman. So I will keep the MACH-E for a few years and wait and see.

How about a low mileage (for it's age) 2008 Audi A4 Avant 6-spd? Pre scratched and dinged so you won't be overprotective.

The answer seems pretty obvious to me. You need a Toyota Century

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9Wq...toyota-century

I just did a quick search. There are 14 Stingers within 100 miles of Houston (13 on lot). 5 of those have the V6. None have a manual (which I think was dropped a couple years ago, and even then only on the small engine).

Too bad it will be a 1-generation car. Still looks great.

I'd probably do one of the Korean EV appliances, certainly over an A4 and likely over a Mach-E.

I think they are hard to get these days and have a fairly hefty ADM. But, still probably cheaper than anything Audi or BMW.

Speaking of which, there is also the X4. I have never driven one to see if they are more fun to drive than the X3. But, they certainly offer less utility, so they have that going for them. LOL.

I think the Mach-E is great looking for an SUV, BTW. But, I do worry about Ford reliability.

I don't think the Kia Stinger was ever offered with a manual. Anyway, JST didn't say he was looking for a manual.

Not much out there new with manuals these days, especially larger practical sedans or wagons. https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...smission-cars/

Hyundai Elantra N might fit the bill, though some of the styling embellishments I could do without.

I like the Jetta and it would fit JST's use I think. Very nice car for the money. Kind of amazed to see a manual one in dealer stock here. Too bad it's a Sport rather than the GTI version. https://www.momentumvolkswagen.com/n...f5af3252d1.htm

The styling of the Mach-E doesn't work for me. Every time I see one I'm reminded how much it looks like a V6 mustang on stilts (mostly because of the narrow wheels and tires I think). Tremendously dorky. And yeah, Ford reliability.

He already has a Jetta...And it probably doesn't offer much more space than the M3, and possibly even less?

Totally forgot about the kid's car.

Just spitballing anyway...

Does that hatchback design of the i4 or 440GC like WDC has help with the luggage issue?

Surprisingly, I think the Jetta has more room than the BMW (partly because the spare lives under the floor). I’ve thought about using that as a trip car; it’s not impossible. And maybe I could get a roof box for it.

The EV6 prices out nearly the same as the Mustang and its range is a whole lot worse.

Guessing Taycans are just too expensive for what you get?

Once you jam an aftermarket spare in the GC, there's very little cargo room left and it would need to be soft duffel-type bags...Definitely a plus for the Audis...

Taycans yes are expensive and pretty small inside (except for the wagon, which is even more expensive).

OK, what am I missing? I did a quick search on range for the two cars

Looks like the EPA-estimated range for the Mach E is 247 miles for the Premium RWD model with the standard battery, and 310 miles with the Extended-range battery.

For the EV6, it's 232 miles for the Standard Range RWD model and 310 miles for the long-range RWD model. That does not seem to be "a whole lot worse."

How about the new i5 if you can wait a few months. Not cheap, for sure but it seems nice and roomy and the looks are not terribly objectionable.

https://www.bmwusa.com/future-vehicles/i5.html

There are also rumors of some sort of M5 wagon hybrid thingy for 2023. But, the price will be stratospheric.

What about the electric Macan? That's coming up quickly, no? Probably not much more room than my GC, though...

It all makes the A4 wagon seem like the strongest option. How hard would it be to lower it?

Then there's the upcoming 5 sedan. That is bound to be pretty nice and far roomier/comfortable than any 3 series platform vehicle. They may keep the PHEV as well...

That's what I meant. The new i5 IS the new 5er. There is no platform distinction between a gas or electric new 5er.

There is the fast, ///M-ish i5 M60, btu there is the vanilla i5 edrive40 or whatever it's called. All the room with a bit more range and less cost. Less than an an electric Macan, I'm sure.

Understood. I was just thinking in my head the ICE or PHEV version rather than the full-on EV.

It will launch at first with gas 530 and 540 and the electric i5 e40 and M60. Next year adding hybrids - 550e and M560.

The EV6 and Mach E are both available in a bewildering variety of configurations with widely differing ranges.

GT to GT, the Mustang is rated at 270 and the Kia at 206. That’s what I was looking at.

Each also has a non-GT AWD version with better range; for the Kia it’s 282 and for the Mustang it’s 290. That’s not a lot worse and in the real world is probably about the same. But that’s not the model I’d buy, for either of them.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but maybe a BMW 330e? Doesn't have very impressive battery range but would still be pretty efficient and seems like it might check many of your boxes. I think the regular 3 series is still reasonably good looking. I do really like the A4 allroad as a nice all-rounder... and Audi manages to squeeze pretty good mileage out of their 4 cylinder + DSG combo.

And if you're willing to consider small crossovers there's the Q5e. Last I looked, Audi was offering a 7500 lease incentive on them. Again, not the best electric range but worth looking into.

I just googled it and it seems they are dropping the 8 cylinder engine :mad2:


I think I got 29mpg on a road trip in my Daughters A4 ... excellent Highway vehicle ... actually I should say excellent overall vehicle.

I would also cast a Vote for the A5 Sportback.

This feels like it’s too soon to embrace the EV revolution

Charging doesn’t seem sorted out and the options seem ‘meh’

Or am I reading this situation incorrectly?

I know off topic but driving my car home today from the office I could not help but feel a little down knowing the next model won't have the 8 Cylinder ... I can only imagine how Fil feels knowing he has 2 of the 8 Cylinder BMW's

With that said FC if you are reading this, my overall average since I got my car is 15mpg. I know you are considering one for your commute.

On a side note (Tesla wise for me anyway)....

Driving around town over the weekend, I saw my first Tesla (first that I can remember anyway) that had that 'beater' look. It was a white one (one of the newer models) that had the passenger door all caved in and the rear bumper cover hanging half off... and would pose a threat to a wayward pedestrian or close car in a parking lot. Can't ever remember seeing a Tesla in distress before. Really stood out to me....
Sorry - no pics....

The one thing that has stood out to me is that regardless of what we seem to think about these cars, the folks that have them tended to keep them in shape. The only other time I saw one remotely close to that condition was on the back of a tow truck.

Yeah kinda makes sense. Early model s cars are now around 10 years old


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk