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Nick M3 11-04-2019 08:18 PM

2019 540i Quick Review
 
3 Attachment(s)
First things first, this fucker is ENORMOUS. Although given the size, I kind of expected it to be a little bigger inside.

Driving experience. Numb. The actual capability of the chassis is pretty high, but the overall level of feedback and driving pleasure is more akin to my grandfather’s ES350 than any other car I’ve driven.

Engine. The B58 is *ok*, but it occupies a weird space between plenty and weak. A car like this should have effortless torque, but it just doesn’t. But when it finds the right gear, it’s plenty. Also, in this car, it sounds horrible. The noises aren’t just muted. They are bad.

Transmission. The usual BMW bizarre too sluggish or too aggressive mis-match. I don’t get it. Audi can make the same transmission feel way more responsive without being annoying. Why can’t BMW?

Interior. OK, but disco party at night.

Trunk. Uh, guess that’s where all the interior space went?

Electronics. The whole no CarPlay without a subscription thing is so fucking customer hostile and self defeating. The all around camera is weird and surprisingly artifacted. Also, I can’t understand what causes it to turn off randomly while i’m still parking.
Lane departure warnings got turned off immediately.

Ride quality. Good, but honestly, not really good enough. Also surprisingly similar to my impression of the ES350.

In summary, meh.

Alan 11-05-2019 06:44 AM

Yuck .. sounds terrible thanks for the review :lol:

wdc330i 11-05-2019 07:10 AM

Love the B58 in my car.

Josh (PA) 11-05-2019 08:01 AM

I thought the 530 loaner I had was quite pleasant for a 5 series. Everything is big now, but IMHO it drove a lot better than the last generation did. The tech was well integrated, and the driver aids were non-intrusive (and easy to disable).
In comparison to where cars have evolved to, basically e-pliances for the detached/connected generation, it was still more driver centric than I expected it to be. Granted I haven't driven an MB or Audi comparable lately, but I have tried the newest Acura TL and a few others that were way worse.

All the blue lights and disco themed crap is configurable as well. You can set it up to be much less bling than the pic shows.

Totally grant you the BMW transmission programming is ABYSMAL. I can't stand it in the X5. It seemed to be better in in the 530 and x3 I recently had, but still no on par with where it should be.

JST 11-05-2019 08:36 AM

The transmission thing is disappointing. I have no idea why BMWs are so bad in that regard. And with that many gears, it should *always* be in the right gear.

Josh (PA) 11-05-2019 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 553129)
The transmission thing is disappointing. I have no idea why BMWs are so bad in that regard. And with that many gears, it should *always* be in the right gear.

For me at least, the problem only exists at start up / off the line. It is a really poor combination of starting in 2nd gear with a very soggy throttle profile that doesn't make the car move at all until you tip in juuusstt a little too far at which point it kicks down to first, and jerks off the line. If you leave the transmission in DS, it will start in 1st with an abrupt kick when it locks up. I've had the thing for about 3 years and can't think of a single smooth take off from a stop or slow roll.

Once it is moving it is generally *fine* for an auto.

wdc330i 11-05-2019 08:56 AM

I typically start off in D and drive until the engine warms up, then shift into DS for the rest of the trip. That said, my transmission is much smoother and easier to modulate than the X5 50i. I struggle mightily with that transmission.

zach 11-05-2019 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 553131)
I typically start off in D and drive until the engine warms up, then shift into DS for the rest of the trip. That said, my transmission is much smoother and easier to modulate than the X5 50i. I struggle mightily with that transmission.

We have the same procedure for our X5 50i - has to be in D and Comfort mode or it's nearly impossible to drive before it warms up a bit. I agree with Nick - everyone except BMW seemingly has figured out how to make the 8spd auto work perfectly. :dunno:

Nick M3 11-05-2019 09:24 AM

I will say that BMW has *finally* accepted reality and put a normal, decent feeling turn signal stalk in.

But honestly, I think the Audi Q5 is more engaging to drive.

Nick M3 11-05-2019 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 553127)
Love the B58 in my car.

If the transmission wasn’t so stupid, it would be more than plenty. Although I can still feel some turbo lag on throttle tip in.

ff 11-05-2019 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh (PA) (Post 553130)
It is a really poor combination of starting in 2nd gear with a very soggy throttle profile that doesn't make the car move at all until you tip in juuusstt a little too far at which point it kicks down to first, and jerks off the line.

That sounds really irritating. If it could handle the torque, a CVT would allow for a much smoother launch experience.

Alan 11-05-2019 10:11 AM

It is pretty amazing how one car enthusiasts outlook of a car can be so different then someone else’s.

I think my 540 is one of the best cars I’ve ever had and really love driving it. I find zero wrong with the engine or the transmission. I think the cameras are hands down the best in the industry and i currently have and also have had some good systems from the other brands to compare them to. They should not be turning off while parking I would have that car checked out.

Paying for CarPlay after the first year is a bit ridiculous and greedy but all of the brands try to get you, Audi gets you hooked on their google maps navigation display and then charges you to keep it.

I’m not defending the 540 because I have one, mine is gone back in a drop over a year and the chances are I will be considering another one.

As they say different strokes for different folks.

Nick M3 11-05-2019 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff (Post 553135)
That sounds really irritating. If it could handle the torque, a CVT would allow for a much smoother launch experience.

CVTs are awful.

Everyone but BMW can make the ZF8 drive well. This is a BMW specific issue.

Nick M3 11-05-2019 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 553136)
It is pretty amazing how one car enthusiasts outlook of a car can be so different then someone else’s.

I think my 540 is one of the best cars I’ve ever had and really love driving it. I find zero wrong with the engine or the transmission. I think the cameras are hands down the best in the industry and i currently have and also have had some good systems from the other brands to compare them to. They should not be turning off while parking I would have that car checked out.

Paying for CarPlay after the first year is a bit ridiculous and greedy but all of the brands try to get you, Audi gets you hooked on their google maps navigation display and then charges you to keep it.

I’m not defending the 540 because I have one, mine is gone back in a drop over a year and the chances are I will be considering another one.

As they say different strokes for different folks.

I have no basis for comparison on the cameras. All I can say is that pulling into my garage, they provide a lot less help than you’d expect, and things look very weird through them (see the picture). And then they turned off for no reason that I could discern.

The car goes down the highway very pleasantly, but it has no steering feel at all, and it’s annoying to maneuver around the city. I kind of wonder if the 530e gets better torque fill around town? If I get bored, I might test drive one.

Edit: Audi charging for access to a service that they are providing (even if it’s a pipeline to Google) is at least justifiable. BMW charging the customer to connect their phone is insulting.

Theo 11-05-2019 10:28 AM

I really am becoming my parents and getting old. I don’t want or care about any of the tech except maybe a map service and phone/audio streaming. I think this is why I am still ok with my ancient car at this point. When I ever get off my ass and get my 981 I’ll probably keep it as long as I’ve had the M5. A dying connected manual car that does not bombard you with tech I will never use.

I have become the name of this site.

ff 11-05-2019 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 553137)
CVTs are awful.

That's one opinion.

FC 11-05-2019 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 553136)
It is pretty amazing how one car enthusiasts outlook of a car can be so different then someone else’s.

As they say different strokes for different folks.

Somewhat related, I still can't get over how awesome my M3 is. And I get to drive a pretty sporty Miata on a regular basis. Not say it couldn't be lighter, smaller, with a bit more feel, etc. But in this day and age that a car like that was available brand new with a stick I think is great and I am very glad I got one.

Nick M3 11-05-2019 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff (Post 553140)
That's one opinion.

Sure, they are good in theory, but a properly configured CVT is unpleasant to live with. Which is why most of them are programmed to pretend that they are regular automatics. So you end up with the worst of both worlds.

ff 11-05-2019 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 553142)
Sure, they are good in theory, but a properly configured CVT is unpleasant to live with. Which is why most of them are programmed to pretend that they are regular automatics. So you end up with the worst of both worlds.

That doesn't describe the CVT in my Accord. I think that it's executed pretty well (i.e. doesn't do the fake shifting, and responds well to my inputs), to the point where I prefer the experience over a regular automatic. Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack.

Alan 11-05-2019 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff (Post 553143)
That doesn't describe the CVT in my Accord. I think that it's executed pretty well (i.e. doesn't do the fake shifting, and responds well to my inputs), to the point where I prefer the experience over a regular automatic. Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack.

I drove my inlaws Honda Accord and had no issue with the CVT, also had a Maxima rental car with it and found it kinda cool how when you floor it the rpms just shot up and stay there. They have really improved since they first came out.

With that said I don't know if I could live with one, I'm not saying they are bad it is just not a transmission I like but heck what do I know, I loved the R-tronic in my R8 and you couldn't possibly read about transmission with more bad reviews:D.

Alan 11-05-2019 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 553138)
I have no basis for comparison on the cameras. All I can say is that pulling into my garage, they provide a lot less help than you’d expect, and things look very weird through them (see the picture). And then they turned off for no reason that I could discern.

I think maybe you would need to get used to it. When I pull in my garage being it is a more traditional garage it works really well. I find it pretty cool how it switches the views depending on what it detects and all the changing of the sounds and showing you the objects in different colors is cool too.

My biggest complaint with my car is at almost a year old I still can't figure out how to shut it off in my garage and leave it unlocked ... I am not joking when I tell you it is not unusual for my wife to go into the garage hours after I come home and she will see my car on usually with the lights and radio on (not the engine running just in the on position).

And this is after I know the car shut down when I left it ... it is just weird but I gave up on this 8 months ago :dunno:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 553138)

Edit: Audi charging for access to a service that they are providing (even if it’s a pipeline to Google) is at least justifiable.

You make a good point, I have a feeling BMW is going to have to do away with the charge eventually unless all the other brands jump on the band wagon.

wdc330i 11-05-2019 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 553146)
You make a good point, I have a feeling BMW is going to have to do away with the charge eventually unless all the other brands jump on the band wagon.

Fortunately, CarPlay was for life when I bought my 2. I use it all the time, and really like it, but I'd be hard pressed to pay a giant fee or ongoing subscription for it.

JST 11-05-2019 01:24 PM

I've never had a CarPlay implementation that worked reliably and consistently. The VW's would stop working for weeks at a time (only on particular phones, though), and then would inexplicably come back. The one in my parents' Mustang works a little more reliably, but still not 100 percent of the time.

When it does work, it's...fine, I guess, but the integration isn't necessarily better than whatever the car is running natively (especially in Audis without touch screens). Not sure how it would work in a BMW with no touch screen; mine doesn't have it.

There is no chance in hell that I'd pay for it.

Re: FC's point, I'd be very interested in Nick's take on the F80. It's...also fine? I mean, I like it, and there are some things about it I like a lot. But it's not a particularly engaging car to drive, and it also has very little steering feel. It's fast but it definitely has some lag, and the power comes on in a whack that reminds you it is turbocharged. I don't think there's a better performance sedan around right now, but honest to god I'm not sure it's a better overall car than the E46 330i ZHP.

Josh (PA) 11-05-2019 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 553146)

My biggest complaint with my car is at almost a year old I still can't figure out how to shut it off in my garage and leave it unlocked ... I am not joking when I tell you it is not unusual for my wife to go into the garage hours after I come home and she will see my car on usually with the lights and radio on (not the engine running just in the on position).
.

I had this problem with both the 5er and the x3 I had as loaners. Nothing would fully shut them off (and I have comfort access on my 1er and x5 so I am used to it).

JST 11-05-2019 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh (PA) (Post 553153)
I had this problem with both the 5er and the x3 I had as loaners. Nothing would fully shut them off (and I have comfort access on my 1er and x5 so I am used to it).

Yeah, mine does that, too. I feel like there must be a setting somewhere, but since I have to leave my car outside I lock it all the time, anyway.

Nick M3 11-05-2019 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ff (Post 553143)
That doesn't describe the CVT in my Accord. I think that it's executed pretty well (i.e. doesn't do the fake shifting, and responds well to my inputs), to the point where I prefer the experience over a regular automatic. Anyway, sorry for the thread hijack.

I’ll admit that I haven’t driven a CVT honda. CVT Nissans are just about the worst drivetrain experience in the world.

robg 11-05-2019 02:01 PM

Wow- that's the first negative review I've read of the B58 though it sounds like your issues are more with the transmission programming.

I agree that Audis implementation is smoother. My old F10 was super annoying in that it would always noticeable downshift to 1st as you were coming to a stop. in low speed traffic, that meant you constantly felt it going from 1-2-1-2. My x3 is much better in that regard, but there are certain conditions where you can "surprise" the transmission and you get a noticeable thunk when it downshifts. I remember that happening on 80s/90s automatics but never in a modern one. What's funny is that the old ZF 6 speed in my e92 was flawless in every way -- never once misbehaved or shifted strangely.

Was this a loaner car that you tried?

robg 11-05-2019 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 553151)
I've never had a CarPlay implementation that worked reliably and consistently. The VW's would stop working for weeks at a time (only on particular phones, though), and then would inexplicably come back. The one in my parents' Mustang works a little more reliably, but still not 100 percent of the time.

When it does work, it's...fine, I guess, but the integration isn't necessarily better than whatever the car is running natively (especially in Audis without touch screens). Not sure how it would work in a BMW with no touch screen; mine doesn't have it.

There is no chance in hell that I'd pay for it.

Re: FC's point, I'd be very interested in Nick's take on the F80. It's...also fine? I mean, I like it, and there are some things about it I like a lot. But it's not a particularly engaging car to drive, and it also has very little steering feel. It's fast but it definitely has some lag, and the power comes on in a whack that reminds you it is turbocharged. I don't think there's a better performance sedan around right now, but honest to god I'm not sure it's a better overall car than the E46 330i ZHP.

I've had the best luck with CarPlay on GM cars and the worst on Audis. The Audi implementation (atleast with the now last-gen system) was very unreliable and using it w /the control wheel was very tedious.

Nick M3 11-05-2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robg (Post 553160)
I've had the best luck with CarPlay on GM cars and the worst on Audis. The Audi implementation (atleast with the now last-gen system) was very unreliable and using it w /the control wheel was very tedious.

My approach to CarPlay is that I still use my damned phone, but it’s nice to have the big/optimized display.

Nick M3 11-05-2019 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robg (Post 553157)
Wow- that's the first negative review I've read of the B58 though it sounds like your issues are more with the transmission programming.

I agree that Audis implementation is smoother. My old F10 was super annoying in that it would always noticeable downshift to 1st as you were coming to a stop. in low speed traffic, that meant you constantly felt it going from 1-2-1-2. My x3 is much better in that regard, but there are certain conditions where you can "surprise" the transmission and you get a noticeable thunk when it downshifts. I remember that happening on 80s/90s automatics but never in a modern one. What's funny is that the old ZF 6 speed in my e92 was flawless in every way -- never once misbehaved or shifted strangely.

Was this a loaner car that you tried?

Yes, it’s a loaner. Playing around with it in manual mode, it’s definitely got throttle tip in lag. But the big issue is really the transmission.

That, and it just doesn’t have enough torque at low revs. The 540i is not a car that revving out the engine is satisfying in. And the noises that are allowed to penetrate the cabin suck, which make that even more annoying. The car would be a lot more satisfying with a big lazy V8. And also better steering, a stiffer gas pedal, and less grabby brakes.

Edit: It’s been a long time, but my Mom’s old N54 335i auto had no drivability issues that I can recall other than the lack of a limited slip diff.

wdc330i 11-05-2019 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST (Post 553154)
Yeah, mine does that, too. I feel like there must be a setting somewhere, but since I have to leave my car outside I lock it all the time, anyway.

I think locking and unlocking it works...

Nick M3 11-05-2019 03:32 PM

And I’m happy to say that it’s going back in the morning.

robg 11-05-2019 09:16 PM

2019 540i Quick Review
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AF (Post 553146)
I think maybe you would need to get used to it. When I pull in my garage being it is a more traditional garage it works really well. I find it pretty cool how it switches the views depending on what it detects and all the changing of the sounds and showing you the objects in different colors is cool too.

My biggest complaint with my car is at almost a year old I still can't figure out how to shut it off in my garage and leave it unlocked ... I am not joking when I tell you it is not unusual for my wife to go into the garage hours after I come home and she will see my car on usually with the lights and radio on (not the engine running just in the on position).

And this is after I know the car shut down when I left it ... it is just weird but I gave up on this 8 months ago :dunno:



You make a good point, I have a feeling BMW is going to have to do away with the charge eventually unless all the other brands jump on the band wagon.



Try hitting the start button one more time after the engine turns off. Alternatively get the car coded so it will shut off when you open the door I noticed that they’ve now made that default atkeast on the new 3 series

Alan 11-05-2019 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 553169)
And I’m happy to say that it’s going back in the morning.

Which car went in for service?




Quote:

Originally Posted by robg (Post 553196)
Try hitting the start button one more time after the engine turns off. Alternatively get the car coded so it will shut off when you open the door I noticed that they’ve now made that default atkeast on the new 3 series

That seemed to work on the last 5er but now they have this new thing called ‘ready state’ or something like that ... I have to hit the stop button and then touch the radio knob and that was suppose to work ... it does sometimes and other times we look in the garage and the car is on ...

As long as it starts in the morning and the battery isn’t dead i’m ok with it :)

John V 11-06-2019 06:59 AM

Shocker, BMW doesn't build good cars anymore.

Nick M3 11-06-2019 10:20 AM

Review coda:

Holy shit, I’m glad to have the E90 back. Driving the 540i for two days really reinforced what a good fit the E90 M3 is for me.

That said, I should take back some of how much I shat on the drivetrain combo. After a hundred miles of my driving, the ZF8 got a LOT less stupid. It would have been tolerable if the pedals required more force. It really makes my leg tense when I have to hold it up off of the gas pedal while cruising. I want to push slightly, not hold up. (This is an irritation in most cars.) The brakes had the same issue, but since brake pedal use is transient, it was more tolerable.

I actually did like the “auto hold” function. If I’m going to drive a numb whale, why should I have to hold my foot on the brake while stopped?

Net-net, I’m slightly less negative on it now. If all I did was drive on the highway with cruise control on, it would be a nice place to be. It’s not a nice place to drive, though.

Nick M3 03-20-2020 06:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
My Dad had a 5-series for a few days and seems to have hated it even more than I did. :lol:

wdc330i 03-20-2020 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 557416)
My Dad had a 5-series for a few days and seems to have hated it even more than I did. :lol:

Probably a lousy spec. Does make all the difference with BMWs.

Nick M3 03-20-2020 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdc330i (Post 557421)
Probably a lousy spec. Does make all the difference with BMWs.

Didn’t matter that much in the past.

wdc330i 03-20-2020 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3 (Post 557422)
Didn’t matter that much in the past.

I’ve always felt a difference between the luxury spec and sport spec BMWs—ever since I started buying them in 2001. Of course, the sport spec that’s not just an appearance package...


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