Arrrrrgh. Some car dealers suckass.
 

Present company excepted.

So here's how my deal went down. I print out a buyers certificate from my bank that got me $500 over invoice at a specific Baltimore dealership. I went in there with the jeep, they agreed to the $500 over invoice deal and after an appraisal offered me 22K for the jeep on trade. Not bad considering a busted bumper and 90K on it, but I walked that night telling them I wanted 23K for the jeep. The next day the salesman called me and said they would do the 23K on trade.

Yesterday afternoon they confirmed that they had cut a deal with the dealership that had the car I wanted. The salesperson called and asked for my credit card to put a deposit on the car as they planned on transporting it down to Maryland that night for delivery to me today. I gave her my cc info, then realized I had never seen a purchase order. I told her I didn't want to go further until they faxed me the PO. She agreed they'd do nothing with the CC until I had signed the PO which would be on it's way to me "immediately".

Finally at about 6 pm last night I get the PO. The $500 over invoice changed to $750 over invoice. And the 23K trade changed to 22.5.

I called and left 2 messages last night for the salesperson and the sales manager that the deal was dead unless they honored what they originally agreed to. I finally got an email from the salesperson at 10 pm last night telling me the deal "was the best they could guarantee" and that they wanted to "see the jeep one more time when I come in to pick up the new car" at which time they would determine whether they would give me 23K for it. She never addressed the additional $250 they added to my original $500 over invoice in their email.

Quite honestly, negotiated correctly, the $750 in difference wouldn't have been a deal breaker to me, especially because I think the trade value is still fair. But the way they're just trying to sleeze another $750 out of a deal makes me want to take a shower. Do they think buyers are stupid or emotional? Or both?

So I fired off a letter telling them I need a PO emailed to me by noon today reflecting the deal we negotiated, or I'd work a deal with another dealer. I'll take bets that there will be more to this story.

Next step is to see if they try to bang my cc for the $1000 deposit, because I wouldn't be surprised if that car is now sitting on their lot.

Alex

Sounds kind of like my father's Jeep deal. He tried to use the AAA buying service which directed him to a local dealer. Once at the local dealer he was only allowed to shop from vehicles on the lot for the AAA special price - of course it took a drive to the other side of town and over an hour with a salesman to get that info. Then they tried to strong-arm him into paying $1.5k more than the AAA deal to order the car he wants.

Or my BIL who drove up from the eastern shore to look at a car advertised on the internet. Once at the dealer they tacked on a $1200 fee (on an $8k car) for "reconditioning" and some other misc. crap. He called before going to look at it and this was never mentioned prior to setting foot on the lot.

The car buying process is seriously broken, between the salesman not knowing anything about the product, and the finance dept treachery, it's just a total mess. I've realized this might be the worst part about leasing - you're stuck doing this dance far too often than if you buy and hold.

And where did David Boorum go? I sent a coworker to Towson to buy an 135i and they said he wasn't there...

Alex

That's the other problem - find a guy you can mostly trust and they leave.

He spent some time at the Porsche dealer, and now is at the Jag/Land Rover place just up the road.

Last I spoke with him he's looking hard to get out of the business. Selling 1 Porsche a month really did him in on the whole car sales thing.

Just got a call from the dealer.

"Math errors, so sorry!"

Alex

:lol::lol::lol:

More like "moral compass errors."

You probably won't find a bible in the glovebox of this one.

:lol:

Yep! And Alex, I'm surprised that the salesperson even remembered who you were. Normally, you no longer exist the second you get off the phone with them, or leave the dealership.

:lol: :lol:

Did I tell you $500 over invoice? Oh, I'm so sorry, I forgot!

:ack:

They remember you until you've paid for the car and driven it off the lot. Then they hit erase.

OK, this last call was the best.

After calling to arrange for a pickup time the salesperson says, "The tone of your email makes me feel that you might be a bit frustrated. I certainly hope you won't hold our little errors against me when you get the customer satisfaction survey. You won't right?" immediately followed by her nervous laughter after a long pregnant cricket chirping pause. And then punctuated by the click of me hanging up the phone.

Alex

i think it depends.

i've had really good experiences with people in the past 5 or so years.

at the end of the day, it's whether or not it's one-off bleed until you dry or if you're building a long term relationship.

i always end up doing the latter, but goodwill with the sales manager and GM go a long way down the road. of course, well run dealerships don't make "mistakes" like this, too.

i also see the other side of it where the business is changing and people have more leverage than they used to have and the dealership personnel have not always evolved in lockstep with the times.

those poor souls who go into a dealership through the front door are always working from MSRP versus an internet person working at invoice plus $XXX, is a prime example.

+1


The only exception would be purchasing multiple vehicles from the same sales person/dealer.


I purchased my 4-Runner via the internet and out of state. It was a pleasant experience even though there was an issue with the truck when I went to take delivery. I refused the vehicle which sent the dealer scrambling to please me and not lose the deal. They located another 4R that had approx $2k of additional options that I received for the previously agreed upon purchase price. We also got them to throw in floor mats, cargo liner, and cargo net. I was pleased and when the deal is done that is all that matters.

i tend to be a multiple vehicle buyer so i take a less hardline approach on the first vehicle because it's a feeling out process and that buys me goodwill on the subsequent stuff.

like you wrote, you can buy the car anywhere, but it's about how much goodwill each party is going to throw into the pot to build a relationship. i cannot put a finger on this, but i know now that service departments tend to favor cars that were purchased there. i guess that makes sense while the car is under warranty.

out of warranty, i don't think they care, unless they can pull up the service history and see that you've done all of the work there.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I only laugh because I've been the one making that call one too many times in my prior life.

I've also been the one to get a surprise "bad" survey back from a customer that you thought was thrilled. And then the resulting 20% reduction in my pay check the following month. :irate:

Speaking of things that are broken, basing dealer compensation on surveys like this is insane.

It all depends on finding the right person, and trying to build some type of relationship.

I clearly have a different understanding of this after being on the other side, but it is possible to have a good relationship with a salesperson.

My parents have worked with the same salesperson at BMW for 12 years now. It works out well for both sides... he gets relatively painless transactions (of course even easier for him a few years ago when I was dictating the terms of the deals), and they get to deal with someone that they know and they can avoid all of the BS. However, he is one of only two people that have been there that long and one of only 4 people at the BMW store today that were there when I left for MINI in 2007. No matter how hard you try to build a relationship, there is a very good chance that salesperson won't be there the next time you go back.

That seems to be the case with BMW Centers, but the large, local Toyota dealer has rolled out the red carpet every time I have taken the 4R in for service and/or warranty work.

BTW, I was speaking from my past experiences of using BMW Centers while traveling, something I have not had to do with the Toyota.

It all depends on the GM and Service Manager. I've worked for both types... the "don't give them a loaner or any special treatment unless they bought the car here" type and the "I don't give a shit where they bought their car, all that matters to me is that they want to service it here and I want to make sure that they have a great experience"

The former almost ensures that you never have a good chance of selling that customer another car, unless you absolutely whore it out. The latter generates a lot of goodwill that can help you earn their business on the next car transaction, even if you are not the cheapest.

Absolutely. It creates all sorts of screwed up incentives. Working on 100% commission is tough, and it's even worse when you know that a huge chunk of it can disappear because of one unreasonable customer. If I deserved it, I could usually deal with it... but when you get a customer that you know was happy but just does not believe in giving "perfect" scores, it really sucks.

They (BMW & MINI) changed the CSI system in Jan 2009 to a bunch of yes/no questions with feedback vs. the 1-5 scoring, and they were going to start rating dealers on their ability to "resolve issues" rather than just getting a certain score. My pay had the CSI component removed from Jan-Jun (when I left), so I never got to see how the new survey would have changed it. I wonder what happened when they turned it back on at the end of 2009?

This is my own ignorance speaking, but I fail to understand why I have to talk to a dealer in this day and age. Why can't I buy directly from the manufacturer?

I haven't gotten a survey on the Countryman yet, but did get the obligatory call from the salesman asking for "all tens" when the survey comes in.

Here's a good article on the topic:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...ranchise-laws/

Because the vast majority of customers have some complication that gets in the way... a trade-in, the need for financing, shitty credit, wanting to see cars in 10 different colors before buying, etc. and the auto OEMs have proven that they suck when it comes to doing this stuff.

Unfortunately for a vast majority of consumers, buying a car is not like going on to amazon.com (or any other online retailer), finding what you want, putting in in your basket and hitting "checkout".

The last two services on the E90 I have traveled 90 miles to a Sonic Automotive owned BMW Center. They do not provide loaners to those that did not purchase their vehicle there. While waiting customers are serviced rather quickly and are left to wait in a very nice waiting room with a large flat screen, wi-fi, and snacks (things my local center does not provide), I would never purchase a BMW from them simply for the fact they have not wowed me. A loaner certainly would help!

My local Center is 7 miles away, provides a loaner, my client advisor is a family friend, and has been with the company for 27 years in either a management or sales position, BUT... the BMW GM is a total douche bag, the service department staff is incompetent, and the service has always been subpar. Based solely on the last three reasons I refuse to give them any more of my money.

That's a bummer, because it's what I want. My interaction with a dealer should be limited to them handing me the keys when I walk in the door. All the paperwork garbage that takes so much time should be done online.

I'm sure there are dealers doing this - I just haven't encountered it. I will say that our Mazdaspeed purchase was very smooth. They had an internet price that they honored, and we didn't get charged any fees other than the tax / title stuff.

I still get emails from the guy that sold me the wagon in Dec '01. And phone calls about every 6 months until we moved/changed numbers in Aug '07.

Real emails (something he actually typed), or an automatic notification sent out by their CRM system?

Yes, there are clearly some great salespeople out there and even some "slightly better than average" ones. Still, it's very rare for the same salesperson to be at the dealership 9 years later.

Ugh.

Probably a 75/25 mix of CRM/human.

When we bought, I think he said he had been there for 8 or 9 years already and that many of customers were repeats or referrals from past customers. The dealer's website no longer lists their sales staff, but I found something on dealerrater.com posted 12/31/10 from someone that just bought a car from him. The review described him the same way I would have (and think I did on the fest), which was he was a great sales guy to deal with.

I bought all of my BMWs from my '99 323iC (which I bought in early '99) through my '06 330i (which I bought in early '06) from the same salesman. That was a total of four cars, three new, one CPO.

As of a couple of years ago, though, he was no longer there.

I couldn't agree more. I just bought two cars from the same dealer in the span of 3 days. Both times, I was forced to stand in the showroom and look at Jettas and Routans in the VW section as I waited 45 minutes for the paperwork to be put together. Both times, I was told that the paperwork would be ready when I arrived at the dealership with the check. :rolleyes:

This.

I'm guessing that's probably because salespeople don't trust customers any more than customers trust salespeople. You hand over the money, I hand over the keys, then me love you long time. Or until you leave the dealership. Whichever occurs first.

Sometimes, you can get a really great loaner, even though you bought the car 2700 miles away.

Like me.

:D

Jon Shafer (and Franco) took good care of me. Though they wouldn't throw in floor mats.

Other than that experience, I've been decidedly underwhelmed with every dealer experience I've had. Some were merely adequate, some heinous.

Floormats!
:irate::irate::irate::irate::irate:

That is my least favorite part of negotiating to buy a new BMW or Mini, because, seriously? We are arguing over floormats?

The smart dealer, IMO, treats the cost of floormats like they treat the cost of prepping/detailing the car for delivery. They build it in and don't talk about it. If that means they don't do an $800 over invoice deal, then so be it. But actually negotiating (or explicitly paying more for) floormats leaves a bad taste.