Winter wheel and tire sizes for the M5
 

Apparently the M5's massive brakes make it difficult to fit anything under 20". Tirerack doesn't offer anything under 20".

There is a 19" BMW M5 wheel, however. Model 705M. It is sold in "Orbit Grey" as the default wheel for a base M5. Base M5's come fitted with 265/40 R19 for the front and 285/40 19 for the rear. The wheels are 9.5" and 10.5" wide respectively.

BMW recommends buying the 705M in "Ferric Grey" for winter tires. These wheels only come in the size of the front 9.5" wide wheels so that one can go with 265/40 R19 winter tires all around.

I really do prefer the orbit grey finish but unless I buy 4 new front wheels I will get a staggered set. I will likely not drive the car in real snow. This video shows just how good the MPS All-Season 4 are in all but the worst of winter. So how bad can a staggered set of winter tires be?


Realistically, I could buy used from this place (seems to have good reviews), and get:

Used set of Ferric Grey square setup with used winter tires already mounted, or

Used set of staggered Orbit Grey with summer tires mounted that I can burn through.

Any thoughts are welcome.

The BMW tire recommendations are intended to allow for the installation of snow chains. That's why they are generally extremely undersized and goofy looking.

Staggered is fine. Imperfect? Sure, but not a real issue.

I have the Michelin All Seasons on staggered 20s (and my car is AWD). Have not seen snow yet with them but I imagine they would handle decently well.

I had the same tires on my 2 RWD series with LSD and 18s non-staggered, and they did slip as I made turns going up inclines when it encountered snow here a couple of times. So, not super confidence inspiring. (Atlanta is relatively hilly and all the roads are windy.)

AWD should help with the incline/turn part. But, if I lived further north and had to face regular snow, I'd run the All Seasons most of the year and swap to Winters for the coldest/snowiest months.

Thanks for the input. Oh and winter tires for the M5 sizes are crazy-expensive. Like $300-$380 each-expensive.

My takeaway from that video is a bit different, I guess. The truly awful performance of the summer tires kind of overshadows just how big a difference there is between the all seasons and the winter tires, but a 20 second gap on a 1 minute course is immense.

This video suggests to me that if you’ve got an AWD car in a place where it only snows occasionally (like DC), you can probably get away with the Michelin all seasons all year round.

But if you’re going to the trouble and expense of buying a whole separate set of wheels and tires for when it snows and you live somewhere that it snows routinely, I would definitely get the snow tires. And yeah I hear you about not meaning to drive the car when it snows a lot, but again if you’re spending the money and effort why not get the specialized tools that actually work? That way you don’t have to stress if you get caught in a storm somewhere, and you have more flexibility if you need to use the car.

I don’t disagree. The plan is to get performance winters.

That said, the test took place on a snow packed circuit.

Unrelated but wow:

https://rennlist.com/forums/992/1327...l#post18492764

Naturally, P-Zeros are not meant to be used in winter, btu it seems they are even worse than other summer tires. More likely to crack in cold weather just from storage. I noticed they were bad the other day when I drove them M5 in 39F. I didn't expect them to be good. But they were far worse than other summer tires at those temperatures.

Found the OG reddit thread. That’s totally nuts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Audi/s/KzSPloHpTW

There’s even a disclaimer on Tire Rack about the PZ4s.

Also the idea that there are tires that cannot even be *parked* outside at temps below 45 degrees is asinine.

Funny, I just edited my post after finding similar info. And I have three sets all living in an unheated (though very well insulated garage). I just came in from starting the 240V space heater until the garage got up to 45F. I really need to install a mini-split there.

I recall Michelin having similar warnings about sub 30F temps. Sub 45F is insane.

When you say a split are you referring to a ductless system ?

I have a crazy heater in my garage hooked up to a thermostat and it keeps the garage as warm as you want and heats super fast. I don’t know if the ductless systems could keep up especially on days like today.

I don’t know if this is the exact model I have but it sure looks like it

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...iABEgJ0y_D_BwE

Yes. I meant a ductless system. My garage is very well insulated, just like a house. R19 on the walls and R30 on the ceiling.

That heater looks serious. I could do that for winter (except I do not have a gas supply to the back garage), but it wont help keep down the humidity in the summer. I would only want the garage at 45F in winter and 80-85F in summer.

Here is another one of these German ebay sellers.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14549454624....c101506.m1851

I wonder how they get these sets? Winter rentals?

Considering the tires alone would cost ~$1500, even at $2500 shipped these sets are a great deal. They seem to have good reviews too.

Hmm well it is what it is.

But back on topic, those eBay units do look like good deals.

You are a hardy one, having all these great cars parked outside. I am loathe to add a second car as much because one would have to live outside as anything else.

My garage can actually fit two cars, and has when I had the CX-5 and 2. But, I really love having the extra refrigerator, storage, and extended pantry area in it now, as it’s directly adjacent to my kitchen. Makes a small ranch way more livable.

I am spoiled now, I guess. Because when I lived in DC/Maryland, I parked cars outside for all but 8 years of my 50 or so years there.

“A car is not a horse, and it doesn't need a barn,” opined FLW

Well, I found a US seller that has the nicer, staggered 705M wheels in excellent condition (with used summer tires) and I have a tentative deal.

I'm not counting on the remaining life of those summer tires, but they could be fun for exploring the limits of the car with whatever thread they have left.

Now my question... Michelin sells Pilot Alpin 5 tires in the OEM-fitted sizes (265 & 285). However, the 265 tires are meant to fit wheels from 9 to 10.5, and the rear wheels are 10.5, so I could technically install 265's all round despite the staggered wheel size.

Would you go with 265's all around or buy the "proper" 265F & 285R tires?

Either way I am not doing this until next fall.

:lol:

10/10 I would do 265s all around. Width does not add that much grip on the white stuff (in certain conditions may subtract), but let's say it adds overall grip... Even then, that car will eat rears rapidly compared to fronts. I would like to rotate them. That's me.

Well, I would not want to rotate the staggered wheels. Also, the tires are unidirectional. I’m also not expecting to use the car on situations with accumulated snow, mostly cold and wet conditions.

Ha! Had not seen this.

285 rear. It’s not going to make a difference in snow performance, unless you need clearance for chains. And I can’t imagine you putting chains on.

Yeah I agree, 285 rear makes sense. If you got the square setup to u could rotate the tires, in theory, but you’d have to get them re-mounted and it’s probably not worth it.

Ok, cool. I thought the same, just wanted confirmation.

Do you have to have staggered wheels? I missed that part. I would use a staggered winter set on a 911/boxster/cayman but not on a 50/50-ish bmw.

I think more and more I'm out of touch with this board. I say square 265, everyone goes 285 rear. :dunno:

Back in the ZHP days, I did that. I bought a used set of 68M wheels (meant for 225F/245R) but installed 225s all round. That said, I never rotated those wheels front to back.

But to be fair, I did drive that car in real snow. It was my only car for two winters. That will not be the case with the M5 because I can WFH in bad weather and have other options even for mediocre weather.

I’m going to disagree a bit here.

The Pilot Sport All Seasons give you something a lot like the steering feel of a summer tire and usable snow performance. For the cold months, they genuinely feel pretty great. If you deliberately are trying to limit grip, they’re not a bad all year tire.

Now, FC in Boston gets more snow than we do, but I’m very happy with my all seasons for the winter choice on the E90.

They are perfect for my purposes and climate, but I would want something more capable up in Boston. If only to get home from the airport after a winter business trip. Even in DC, there were times I was really happy to have the winters when I was stuck downtown for events I could not miss.

I’ve been through some really bad snow storms with the M550 with the all season tires and never felt the need for snow tires, same with my 540, my previous 550, 535, my A6’s, etc.

I agree with Nick that all seasons will get you through anything especially combined with AWD.

I was going to mention to FC I don’t see any reason why he isn’t driving the M5 with the P Zero’s, I drove through 4 winters with them on the R8 and multiple winters with the 911 (both cars had 295 width tires on the rear) before I got winter tires on the 911. I’m not saying he should not get another set, I think he should since his car will see snow where the R8 and 911 were driven between storms but he could still enjoy the car on days like today.

Today I drove the C8 with the all seasons and they were great in this crazy cold weather and no tire chatter when making a tight turn.

The downside with winter tires are in March you get some warm weather here and there and the winter tires turn to mush but otherwise they are great,

Alan, the M5 is not on P7's. It's on P-Zeros max performance summers.

Frankly, I am more inclined to consider all seasons because of the shoulder seasons. Especially in the last ~10 years I just don't know what to expect in November and December and March and April. I don't want to ride on winter tires at 50-60F, but now I am concerned about driving the P-Zeros at <45F.

DC doesn’t have that many steep hills but I live on one of them, and my experience with all seasons on RWD cars is that they just can’t deal with the hills.

I’ve had better luck with all seasons and AWD; the Golfs were basically fine in the snow, as was the 535. So, maybe I’m changing my opinion of FCs use case a little; maybe I’d try and tough it out with all seasons. Still, I mostly stuck with all seasons on those cars because it meant I didn’t have to swap tires; I still think that if you’re going to do all that work you might as well get peak performance in the snow.

And actually maybe what I’d do is throw all seasons on it and just run those all year.

Oops my bad yes the R8 and the 991 had the P zero’s too

Corrected my post above.

Even with the less snowy winters we've been having, DC & Boston are not the same... Snow tires on a rwd was how I had some of the most fun I ever had driving.

I guess if the M5 is never going to see salt, he could do all seasons.

Salt yes, unfortunately. Driving on a packed layer of snow, likely not. But to everyone's collective points, if I am going through the trouble of a 2nd dedicated set, I might as well go with snows as added insurance.

That’s what I would do. And then eventually replace the summers with all seasons, and play swaps by ear.

Are you driving it in the snow or just driving it in the winter and don't want to get screwed if you're caught out?

I mean, it's worth noting that performance type snows are really just all seasons anyway. If you're serious about snow performance, you're going to pay a REAL penalty. (I do sometimes miss my old set of Q-rated snows, though.)

This.

I have real snows on the LR4, the GTI, and the Mini, which is why I think I am fine with performance snows or even all seasons.

Based on this, I would ABSOLUTELY choose the Pilot Sport All Seasons.

Yeah, but…

The F90 M5 is AWD, right? How often is FC likely to leave *that* car at the airport when he has real winter tires on multiple others.

If this one was his only car, that’d be another story.