For the haters... It finally arrived from Japan! It's not a Telsa or a VW product, but from our previously ownership it works well for us.

Wait... There are cars from Japan?

Fixed...

Zombie thread revival...

I find myself thinking of 4runner's. It was a circuitous route. Started with older Range Rover full-sized, then considered Land Cruisers, but realized both of those are too big.

How did I get to Toyota's? Due to various orthopaedic and podiatric recoveries, weather and plain laziness, I've been taking a short Uber or Lyft ride every evening for maybe a hundred days in a row. How older Toyota's are screwed together and hold up over and above other cars became quite clear to me. Land Rover & Range Rover's drive very well for their size, but I just have no money for new and no time or money for more maintenance of the old.

Thought of the GX460, drove two (from the 2011 to 2013 generation) before the uglification. The logic there was that, the GX has a Lexus interior, a v8, HID's (and a torsen center) over the 4runner at around the same used price. So why not?

Well, there is a reason for the resale. It just doesn't come together visually. The v8 feels slow anyway. The car is slow-witted, soft and tall handling with soft brakes. The barn door tailgate is a strange negative. Once I thought of the whole design as 'grafted on' the 4runner (as in raised ceiling and heavier), I can't get over the mutant aspect, despite the better spec.

I plan to check out a pre-owned 5th generation 4runner (current) and possibly a 4th generation (if I can find a one for a fair price). Their resale is amazing and so is their reputation. The VIN's start with JT, just as the Land Cruiser, they are built in Japan. I've been reading about and giving some thought to the trim differences. I don't like the 20" wheels, but I think I'll be "limited" to the Limited. That's the only one that has a Center torsen diff. Apparently 2009 and before it was more available, but 2010+, the other models are 2wd or locked 4wd. My use case is almost never rocks/boulders, but often snowy highway. I would like an AWD system, ideally with a slight rear bias. The bonus of the 4runner limited is that the center is lockable and has higher clearance than the audis, subarus and xdrives that I'm used to. The trail 4runner has a rear locking diff, but I'm not sure how 4wd (4hi) drives on a snowy highway. I have no experience with that, but I'm guessing it'll make me miss audis and subarus badly. This is why I cannot consider Wranglers or Tacoma's. None of them have a torsen or other viscous center diff.

I have never driven a 4runner - of any generation. Hopefully some test drives this week. And hopefully it will not flop like the Lexus GX and something will feel together about it.

You're making me want a Forerunner!

We also have (now) a 100lb dog. With a few pounds more to go...

If you read the thread back, ff and SCA have only positive things to say about them. I'd be happy if they chimed in again.

Toyota SUV's almost always have the nice 2" hitch, unlike most German SUV's, where about 10% of Cayennes seem to have it. I need that for cycling.

Towing? Sure it's a nice to have, but more important to me is compact footprint. The 4runner is 2" shorter than an e60 and has about 70" of space with the back row folded (the 3rd row is avoidable - whereas GX always has it). That's what fits in my driveway and the tight dead-end street that I live on.

The Limited Forerunner has a torsen center diff that is also lockable? Wow.

Do you know how well it distributes power side to side? If front and rear are fully open diffs that's still weak sauce.

Open front and rear. No Toyota has locking front (I guess you could mod if you are so inclined). FC has a locked rear on his LR4, e.g,, but I doubt he has needed it much. The good thing with Toyota is that there is some aftermarket close to OEM and it seems possible to add a lockable rear through ARB or some such thing.

To get locking rear and stay stock, in the current line-up, you have to give up the center diff and go to 2wd/locked-4wd optionality. Maybe driving a locked 4wd on the highway (4hi or H4) is not so bad in mixed conditions, I'm not sure. Say changing lanes across slush accumulations at 50mph, something a rwd car with snow tires may have some issues with but a subaru or audi powers through. Or slick turns. I worry a locked center will be odd to drive (compared to what I'm used to).

Oh yeah I wouldn't necessarily want a locking front / rear, but some kind of electronic braking at least.

All current 4runner models have braking simulated diffs.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

:wink2:

After just driving in Denver during snow and after I can see why awd would be nice if your get snow.

Edit. Didn’t know SCA had a 4-runner. Good car taste:D

As for HIDs I installed these and I am pretty impressed with the light output, Very OEM like.

http://www.xenondepot.com/H11-HID-Ki...D-p/xt-h11.htm

Oh that's right. Between ff, SCA and you there are at least three 4runners on mudgeons.

The small-ish footprint was another thing that I liked about the 4Runner. It was plenty roomy inside (as long as you don't need a 3rd row of seats), without being big on the outside. It fit our family's needs quite well.

I haven't priced 4Runners any time in recent history, but the two examples that you sent over seemed to be priced fairly. 125K is a healthy number of miles on the 2008, but it appears to be in such nice condition. The owners seemed to have cared for it really well. I think it's worth a closer look.

The 2011 does throw up a caution flag for me, though, because trade-in value for that example is higher than what a dealer is asking. Possible that it has some previous body damage.

I no longer own a 4R. I did not enjoy my 5th Gen 4Runner (2014 Limited AWD) nearly as much as the previously owned 4th Gen 4Runner (2007 SR5 4WD). Truthfully, I despised the 5th Gen and after nearly three years of ownership and 21,XXX miles I sold the 5th Gen to a local Toyota dealer for $5k less than I purchased it new. Note, I owned the 4th Gen for seven years and put on 57,000 problem-free miles. Depreciation on my 4th Gen was nearly $1300 annually.

Good input, guys, many thanks.

So I drove the 2011 4runner limited. Compared to a similar year GX460, it didn't feel slower, despite not having the v8. It actually felt lighter, more grippy and less tippy. It also has the much better rear door.

But and it's a big but, somehow I hadn't minded the GX steering, or perhaps I had even liked the hydraulic feel that is disappearing these days. The 4runner seemed to have very loosey goosey disconnected steering. Like sawing at the wheel. Not sure if any tie rods or ball joints was wrong with that particular one. At 20k miles, I doubt it. Tire pressures were a bit too much, 37psi all around. The test drive was late in the day, on a dark, cold night on unfamiliar roads. I thought it was all right but I didn't really fall in love. Controls, while simple, are very different than all the german machinery I've driven straight for 18 years. I found myself having to turn the dome light on to find and operate secondary controls (something I haven't done since the 996).

Maybe I would like the 2014+ facelift better, but mechanically they should be identical.

I'd be happy to try the 4th gen. There are very few below 100k miles though and they still ask for a lot. Around here, they can be rusty too.

Anything against the 4th gen v8? Simply not necessary?

So the test drive of the 4runner was mid-week. Yesterday I did venture out to give the Jeep GC another shot, or even look at a Wrangler with a manual. Awful day to ask for a drive as it is the busiest car shopping day of the year in NJ. A ton of customers looking for that deal and every salesmen/women running around inking paperwork.

Only able to sit, the JGC seemed much nicer inside than the 4runner but with less space, especially cargo space. The wrangler is not going to work for us. C. did not get comfortable with 'call of duty' and what not badging and lifts all around. Back seat is not comfortable in the Unlimited and the cargo is even worse than the GC. Coupled with the locked 4wd vs. AWD of the JGC, it felt like a no-brainer for us to skip it, even if it comes with a manual.

So kinda back to square one. Neither is a vehicle I can get excited about, but 4runner and JGC are still sort of in the running. I haven't figured out how much spec I want in the JGC. The trims with the top AWD system are expensive. I don't need a leather dash in my SUV but I would like the best traction there is, so some searching/learning and hopefully driving to do.

A dark horse, third candidate are the Cayenne/Touareg TDI twins. They are being released for sale. There are no Touaregs below 45k miles in my 100 mile radius. Cayennes are expensive.

I almost went out to try doing a thing today, but didn't happen.

There is a law in NJ that prohibits car sales on Sundays. It's actually good for the family life of sales folk who may end up taking not enough (no) days off. So that day was the 30th.

Bummer for me, as Sunday is my freest day and I shop for cars as if it's my job.

Have you tried a Land Rover, ala FC?

I tried Range Rovers. Sport & Full-sized from 2007 to 2012. I preferred the full-sized and after much research decided that the 2007 to 2009 RR Supercharged was the sweet spot. I couldn't pull the trigger on a black/black one and a better colored one disappeared. Around that time a couple of friends and stories got into my head and seeing some sag on bad airbags, I talked myself out of it just as I had talked myself in.

They are much nicer to drive, especially the full-sized softie, than the Toyota and the JGC.

The car sales & service industry is a terrible place for most people to make a living, but blue laws are never good.

This.

It's the most densely populated state in the country and they shut down one of the two days each week that working people can shop during the day. Saturdays are now overcrowded and unpleasant.

It's so fucking stupid. Only religion could be responsible for something so idiotic.

I don't know if there are blue laws here in SC, but it is the south, church and all. so most things are closed. Dealers that are open on Sunday don't open until about 1 in the afternoon.

I used to like being able to walk through car lots unmolested by overeager salespeople on Sundays, but it was for window shopping. Not good when seriously wanting pricing or test drives

It's only Bergen County that has the oppressive blue laws. I avoid the GSP/17/4 area like the plague on Saturdays. During holiday season, especially.

EDIT: I should clarify. I think the car sales thing is statewide, it's everything else that's closed as well on Sundays in Bergen County.

Actually, I was going to say "follow the money".