LOL. You guys thought BMWs were unreliable.

[lemming]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol:

Oh boy.

This 996 thing is going to be fun.

It's a lovely car. and it's old, right? so most if not all of this is very fix-able (some is not).

But, let's run down the superificial list:

1. oil pressure sender (replaced)
2. rain sensor/windshield wiper relays (on my list)
3. water pump (on my list)
4. windshield wiper motor (fixed)
5. seat heater element (on my list)
6. IMS (fine)

my 85 Targa was downright bulletproof compared to this.

If this was not such a rewarding and fun car to drive, I might actually be upset.

[bren]

I discovered that the tabs for the rear window defroster on the z06 are broken.

The list for the m3 is so long that I'm just ignoring everything on it. :ack:

[lemming]

I discovered that the tabs for the rear window defroster on the z06 are broken.

The list for the m3 is so long that I'm just ignoring everything on it. :ack:

i'm dealing with stuff because until January or so, this will be my daily driver and they will irk me.

otherwise i'd let it sit until March.

the upside is that for a C5, it's a well known universe and most things will be inexpensive and parts will abound. for the german cars, i'm grateful that the mechanical things work as well as they do.

but the electrical and electronic things still make me laugh.

[Theo]

If I didn't have the aftermarket warranty covering my ass for the last 6+ years I would have fallen behind a long time ago. Old used German cars are expensive to maintain period. Esp performance models. It goes with the territory. Why do you think 10yo AMG's that stickered for over 100K are now 10K.

I just had my first out of warranty repair for the drivers door window regulator. $$$$

[Jeff_DML]

la la, I cant hear you guys :eeps:

[FC]

Well, in 8 years and 90k miles my 997TT has had:

-Actuator for wing replaced (sometime in the first 30k - though my 987S - also '07 - had the same item replaced, so maybe that was a recall?)
-Some valve cover screws replaced at 60k-ish. Minor job - $300 at the dealer. previous owner forgot he had a warranty and dumbass dealer didn't check so he paid for it.
-Clutch hydraulic assist master cylinder replaced at 85k miles.

That's it. And that's on a 1st year car.

[TD]

Saw that before the edit/fix. About to comment on the minor-ness of a $300K repair.

[FC]

If I didn't have the aftermarket warranty covering my ass for the last 6+ years I would have fallen behind a long time ago. Old used German cars are expensive to maintain period. Esp performance models. It goes with the territory. Why do you think 10yo AMG's that stickered for over 100K are now 10K.

I just had my first out of warranty repair for the drivers door window regulator. $$$$

No doubt. I expect to and do a lot of work myself, particularly maintenance. Heck even the MINI would get expensive if I didn't do stuff myself.

A guy at work (PCA member) tells me he and his buddies would love to do a tech session at my house and help me fix whatever goes wrong with my car. His buddy routinely pulls motors out of 911s and works GT3's, etc.

That made me feel better about tackling a clutch job or anything else. Especially having a lift.

[FC]

Saw that before the edit/fix. About to comment on the minor-ness of a $300K repair.

Yeah, sorry. lol.

[Nick M3]

la la, I cant hear you guys :eeps:
When it breaks, give me a call. :) I've been thinking about picking up an E36 to keep in LA.

[Jeff_DML]

When it breaks, give me a call. :) I've been thinking about picking up an E36 to keep in LA.

you should of bought clydes jag , I could of PPI it for you ;)

[dan]

you should of

I could of

:speechle:

[lemming]

Well, in 8 years and 90k miles my 997TT has had:

-Actuator for wing replaced (sometime in the first 30k - though my 987S - also '07 - had the same item replaced, so maybe that was a recall?)
-Some valve cover screws replaced at 60k-ish. Minor job - $300 at the dealer. previous owner forgot he had a warranty and dumbass dealer didn't check so he paid for it.
-Clutch hydraulic assist master cylinder replaced at 85k miles.

That's it. And that's on a 1st year car.

the rear wings fail a lot.

at least it's fix-able.

the costly stuff on the rear engine are spark plugs and clutch.

[Nick M3]

the rear wings fail a lot.

at least it's fix-able.

the costly stuff on the rear engine are spark plugs and clutch.
Yeah, I love how much of a pain in the ass it is to replace the spark plugs.

[lemming]

Yeah, I love how much of a pain in the ass it is to replace the spark plugs.

:lol:

esp on the twin spark motors.

[bren]

you should of bought clydes jag , I could of PPI it for you ;)

You know, he would have been a good fit for that Jag. Maybe it's still available....

:lol:

[FC]

the rear wings fail a lot.

at least it's fix-able.

the costly stuff on the rear engine are spark plugs and clutch.

Yeah, they are a PITA, but (on the 997TT) they are a 40k mile item, so I am good for a while. The clutch is doable too (for me, with a lift).

[kognito]

Yeah, I love how much of a pain in the ass it is to replace the spark plugs.

How hard is it?

I had a chevy S10 van in the late 70's. I had to unbolt the motor mounts and jack the motor up 2 inches to get plugs 3 and 7 out.

[lemming]

Yeah, they are a PITA, but (on the 997TT) they are a 40k mile item, so I am good for a while. The clutch is doable too (for me, with a lift).

you got it. you pay the piper, it just depends on when (plugs).

the reason why the relay for the intermittent wipers makes me laugh is because the intermittent wipers on the 1985 car still worked fine --so it was humorous that they're wonky on the 996.

it could always be worse, right? IMS bearing issue affects 1-8% of the cars (depending on the true data, which people really do not have).

on the e36 m3, it was the money shift (bending valves) and the cracked rear subframes.

[Theo]

I am beyond almost all of the known issues on mine. Just waiting for the water pump to fail.

[John V]

the rear wings fail a lot.

at least it's fix-able.

the costly stuff on the rear engine are spark plugs and clutch.

Spark plugs on a Boxster are easy. :)

[lemming]

Spark plugs on a Boxster are easy. :)

it's all relative.

(other than that whole non-access to the engine except from beneath issue) "spark plugs on a Boxster are easy"

:D

[Sharp11]

Next month I'll have had the ZHP for 8 years and 52k miles - so far a new battery is the only thing I've replaced.

Knock wood ...

[John V]

it's all relative.

(other than that whole non-access to the engine except from beneath issue) "spark plugs on a Boxster are easy"

:D

It took me less time to do six plugs on the Boxster than it took me to do six plugs on the ZHP. :dunno: More stuff to remove on the BMW to get there.

The plugs are in plain sight on a Boxster once you remove a rear wheel and a small splash guard.

[lemming]

It took me less time to do six plugs on the Boxster than it took me to do six plugs on the ZHP. :dunno: More stuff to remove on the BMW to get there.

The plugs are in plain sight on a Boxster once you remove a rear wheel and a small splash guard.

seriously?

i'm shocked at how simple that seems.

[lupinsea]

93k on the Miata right now.

Previous owner replaced the window switch under warranty.

Otherwise normal maintenance for me:

- changed the brakes this summer
- did spark plugs @ 60k (or was it 75k?)
- air / oil / filter as needed

It's due for new tires.

[Pinecone]

Nother wrong right now on the E46 M3.

Fiat just turned over 20K and so far oil changes and gas only.

Jeep Grand Cherokee is a MESS. It sat this srping for various reasons, so now brakes are toast. Probably needs rotors, pads, fluid, etc.

[FC]

Nother wrong right now on the E46 M3.

Fiat just turned over 20K and so far oil changes and gas only.

Jeep Grand Cherokee is a MESS. It sat this srping for various reasons, so now brakes are toast. Probably needs rotors, pads, fluid, etc.

What year is your JGC?

[lemming]

Did spark plugs in 34F weather today on the 996.

[lip277]

And had a warm drink afterwards. :)

[lemming]

i 'think' the plug interval is 60k miles, but the car was starting to chug a little.

so i changed the plugs.

the ones I pulled were filthy and gives me the impression that the single owner did a lot of short trips.

clutch takeup is awesome --but i'm still getting a new clutch put in because i'm having a new IMS bearing put in, pro-actively.

still have not managed to put on the snow tires, but that's a weekend project.

[JST]

i 'think' the plug interval is 60k miles, but the car was starting to chug a little.

so i changed the plugs.

the ones I pulled were filthy and gives me the impression that the single owner did a lot of short trips.

clutch takeup is awesome --but i'm still getting a new clutch put in because i'm having a new IMS bearing put in, pro-actively.

still have not managed to put on the snow tires, but that's a weekend project.

http://www.leithporsche.com/cdn.dlron.us/assets/misc/leith/leith-porsche/landing-pages/Maintenance-Schedule/911-Turbo/911-Turbo-911-2003-maintenance-checklist.pdf

[lemming]

http://www.leithporsche.com/cdn.dlron.us/assets/misc/leith/leith-porsche/landing-pages/Maintenance-Schedule/911-Turbo/911-Turbo-911-2003-maintenance-checklist.pdf

i'm 100% convinced my IMS bearing is going to be fine, but since they're doing the clutch, the added cost is minimal.

at least this exercise will let me report back to you (and anyone else with a sealed bearing design) on how paranoid to be about this.

[JST]

i'm 100% convinced my IMS bearing is going to be fine, but since they're doing the clutch, the added cost is minimal.

at least this exercise will let me report back to you (and anyone else with a sealed bearing design) on how paranoid to be about this.

Post pics.

[lip277]

Yes, please. I have a 'slight' interest. :)

[lemming]

Yes, please. I have a 'slight' interest. :)

in for a major service right now [one owner car, 50k miles]

thus far:

belt (worn)
3rd gen coolant cap (car still has 1st gen cap)
flex disc (worn)
flywheel (springs are worn and loose parts)
clutch (worn)
IMS bearing (unclear, but I will post pictures)

[JST]

This month's Panorama has more on the IMS issue, including some hard numbers on percent of vehicles affected.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/19/dd7fc252fdc0fabbadf1df7e3813a086.jpg

1 percent of early 2 row bearing cars; 8 percent of single row IMS bearing cars; 1 percent of M97 "big single row" bearing cars.

[lemming]

This month's Panorama has more on the IMS issue, including some hard numbers on percent of vehicles affected.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/19/dd7fc252fdc0fabbadf1df7e3813a086.jpg

1 percent of early 2 row bearing cars; 8 percent of single row IMS bearing cars; 1 percent of M97 "big single row" bearing cars.


Thanks. My IMS bearing was fine. 9838

Intact, no degradation of the seals and spins like a top.

[FC]

Cool.

[lemming]

in the vein of JST's post:

http://truedelta.kinja.com/a-pin-less-grenade-for-the-betting-man-1672108784

[JST]

in the vein of JST's post:

http://truedelta.kinja.com/a-pin-less-grenade-for-the-betting-man-1672108784

Very interesting. I am curious about reliability data on the "upgraded" aftermarket part. I understand the theory, and of course it looks like it should work better. But theory and practice are often different things. Is LN engineering's R&D on this really solid?

[lemming]

Very interesting. I am curious about reliability data on the "upgraded" aftermarket part. I understand the theory, and of course it looks like it should work better. But theory and practice are often different things. Is LN engineering's R&D on this really solid?

i dunno, JST.

I would be fine in putting in an OEM bearing, too, if need be. But I noted that even at Herb Chambers Porsche, they do this whenever they replace a clutch and they use the LN Engineering part.

LNE themselves call it a part with a finite lifetime --does that serve them? sure. does it cost extra when you're doing a clutch? not really. $800 or so.

My IMS bearing says "Made in Poland" which is interesting! But the lack of wear on mine is really telling (to me). I know that I had a one owner car which had regular oil changes (and not much else). My car needed plugs and obviously a new flywheel (clutch wasn't so bad) which says it was all city driving and not so smoothly driven either (it takes hamfistedness to ruin a flywheel in 50k miles).

Despite all of that, the IMS bearing looked brand new. So, is the issue overblown? I think so. The problem is the 1-8% here are faced with a $25,000 problem. So I think the $800 is well spent, but nothing to worry about on an engine that is broken-in and with regular oil changes.

[JST]

i dunno, JST.

I would be fine in putting in an OEM bearing, too, if need be. But I noted that even at Herb Chambers Porsche, they do this whenever they replace a clutch and they use the LN Engineering part.

LNE themselves call it a part with a finite lifetime --does that serve them? sure. does it cost extra when you're doing a clutch? not really. $800 or so.

My IMS bearing says "Made in Poland" which is interesting! But the lack of wear on mine is really telling (to me). I know that I had a one owner car which had regular oil changes (and not much else). My car needed plugs and obviously a new flywheel (clutch wasn't so bad) which says it was all city driving and not so smoothly driven either (it takes hamfistedness to ruin a flywheel in 50k miles).

Despite all of that, the IMS bearing looked brand new. So, is the issue overblown? I think so. The problem is the 1-8% here are faced with a $25,000 problem. So I think the $800 is well spent, but nothing to worry about on an engine that is broken-in and with regular oil changes.

Agreed on all points. I'd use the LN part, too, if I were you, though absent failure rate data its hard to know whether it actually is better than the OEM part.

[lemming]

Agreed on all points. I'd use the LN part, too, if I were you, though absent failure rate data its hard to know whether it actually is better than the OEM part.

the LN part makes me nervous.

but i'll probably replace it in 40k miles anyway, just to see how it's doing (for my curiosity).

not sure there are enough M96 motors and owners who have reached that mileage post-LNE install to have a look.

I think Flat6 Innovations is a good outfit and they mean well. I think Porsche also did a good thing by covering some of the engines --if the average street person understood how many iterations and running changes Porsche has made with the M96 engine, they might have a heart attack.

For example, I was given a new radiator cap --design iteration 04. my car still had design 01. it's not like they're not trying to understand from the factory point of view what the issues are. I just think they don't sell enough cars so any bad news is inordinately bad for them statistically.

[Jeff_DML]

in the vein of JST's post:

http://truedelta.kinja.com/a-pin-less-grenade-for-the-betting-man-1672108784

So far during 2014 three IMS failures have been reported. Two of these involved bearings that had been preventively replaced 12,000 to 16,000 miles earlier. Can it hurt to fix something that might not have been broken?

that would suck

[lemming]

that would suck

it's an underreported issue. LNE is overly dramatic about "training" and warranties related to "certified" installers.

generally speaking, it's a good practice to go to a garage where they have all of the proper alignment tools and lock the cams in place --a garage that has not done this before or a DIYer, all bets are off. it's not hard at all (I watched some of it), but it helps if you're familiar with it.

i think the data says it's significant enough to take into consideration, in the pre-owned market, where you may be uncertain about how the car was maintained and driven.

but the data also says that it's highly unlikely that something bad is going to happen --be mindful of the data and skip the years where failure is apparently up to 8%.

when you watch the procedure getting done, in a garage with a full spectrum of tools, it's amazing how simple it is to do (other than the stress of locking the cams in place).

[lip277]

Thanks for the info... The more I find out about this issue - the more I feel good about the engine in my car.

It is just short of 90,000 miles presently - and I'll be taking it in for its first oil change since I bought it...
I will probably wait around and watch them do it - if I can.

Don't know what else they'd do for that service -I probably need to read up on that before I go in. :)

Again - thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

[lemming]

Thanks for the info... The more I find out about this issue - the more I feel good about the engine in my car.



It is just short of 90,000 miles presently - and I'll be taking it in for its first oil change since I bought it...

I will probably wait around and watch them do it - if I can.



Don't know what else they'd do for that service -I probably need to read up on that before I go in. :)



Again - thanks for the info. Much appreciated.


Not sure if you want your oil analyzed, but they could split the filter for you and look for metal. That's an easy and good predictor.

[lip277]

Yeah - That is one of the things I will have them do...
I have the next few days off - I will be doing some homework on this and - maybe get it done around New Years...

[lemming]

Yeah - That is one of the things I will have them do...
I have the next few days off - I will be doing some homework on this and - maybe get it done around New Years...

unlike any of the aircooled engines, the oil change on these engines is easy enough for a moron like me to even change the oil --as JV has mentioned though, just be mindful of the correct amount to add.

i think the main thing that one sees is that the convergence of two things: (1) people who owned the watercooled 911s probably leased them and didn't give a rat's ass about maintenance and (2) the 996/997 prices are falling into the range of mortals who may/may not be accustomed to what it costs for preventative maintenance.

My car is literally 13 years old but the engines (if you can get one) are still $25,000. So everyone has to do the math and guess what they're comfortable doing for preventative maintenance. the best preventative maintenance is to drive the cars intelligently and often.

i'm probably the wrong end of the spectrum because I try to drive them every single day, which is not fun for a high strung engine with a high compression ratio. but it's a helluva lot more fun than driving the 1985 to work every day.....